Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

[egwj26]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

Silvertip, in reference to your statement, "In operation the entire system can be left powered continuously. The charger will serve to provide "make-up" power during operation, and "charging" when the motor is turned off." We may consider this. At moment, the system is designed in such a way that when the unit is in operation, the charger is cut off from the system, hence, the battery may run flat if use forget to charge the battery. This is a safety feature built in, because the battery bank is placed near the pool. However, if we placed the battery bank/charger far away from the pool, I guess, we can eliminate this safety feature.

Thanks!!

You still haven't answered the question if this motor is actually submerged during operation? I suspect it is but a yes or no would be helpful. I still contend that using a 36 volt troller, three batteries in series and adding a high capacity three bank marine on-board charger is going to be the simplest, easiest and most economical solution to this. Consider that the batteries and charger do not have to be located in the immediate vicinity of this unit. Closer is better obviously but not essential. In operation the entire system can be left powered continuously. The charger will serve to provide "make-up" power during operation, and "charging" when the motor is turned off. Here is the approximate cost, excluding the motor. If the system is not used for more than a couple hours at a time the size of the charger can be reduced and perhaps group 24 batteries could be used.

30A Charger (3 banks): $369.00
3 Batteries (group 27 deep cycle): $225.00

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

If there is a safety issue (local/national codes for example) then a simple additional circuit that cuts the power to the charger when the motor is switched on will cost very little and be automatic in operation.

As for power supply output, In the few searches I've done, I've seen many with 0 - 40 volt DC outputs. Those I saw did not have suffient output current however. The MinnKota specifications for a 36 volt 101# thrust motor show a current draw of 46 amps. That sir -- is bunch of power which does run up the cost of such a power supply. Are they available? Certainly -- but you will dealing with either military or heavy duty commercial supplies. Again -- costly.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

Good point about safety codes. Using a power supply such as that in a swimming pool could be a problem depending on how the unit grounded. Would definitley want a GFCI on it.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

3 of these in series would be 36VDC @ 30A
http://cgi.ebay.com/12V-DC-30A-350W...091?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ca55a05ab

Would have to find out how they like to be operated in series.

 

[Splat]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

OKay I may be able to help. Here's what i use for projects.

What you may want to consider are power supplies from a server bank. They operate at 12vdc and if electronically isolated can be wired in series to make what ever increment of 12vdc you want. Now all you need to find is someone who supplies such an item at a decent cost.

Well how about this.
http://www.feathermerchantrc.com/

Would 47amps be enough for this project?

He sells 47 amp models for $50 a piece, or two for $90. He is a fellow radio control pilot and lots of guys use his power supplies to power our high output chargers. He's very reliable, super fast shipping, and will make a deal if asked. I have personally ordered from him, and use 2 of his 47amp supplies in my portable charging box for my Helicopters and planes.

Just a suggestion.

Bill

 

[egwj26]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

HI Bill,

Thanks!! I will check out the link!!

Update you all again if I've progress =)

Thanks!!

Regards,
Edwin Goh

OKay I may be able to help. Here's what i use for projects.

What you may want to consider are power supplies from a server bank. They operate at 12vdc and if electronically isolated can be wired in series to make what ever increment of 12vdc you want. Now all you need to find is someone who supplies such an item at a decent cost.

Well how about this.
http://www.feathermerchantrc.com/

Would 47amps be enough for this project?

He sells 47 amp models for $50 a piece, or two for $90. He is a fellow radio control pilot and lots of guys use his power supplies to power our high output chargers. He's very reliable, super fast shipping, and will make a deal if asked. I have personally ordered from him, and use 2 of his 47amp supplies in my portable charging box for my Helicopters and planes.

Just a suggestion.

Bill

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

Problem is Bruce, he needs at least 46 amps.

 

[egwj26]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

Does it means that the max ampere drawn by the 36V DC motor might go above 47 amps?

Problem is Bruce, he needs at least 46 amps.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

Does it means that the max ampere drawn by the 36V DC motor might go above 47 amps?

You need to tell us that. What is the rating of the motor?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

At this point we have no idea what the maximum current draw of the motor is. Heck, we don't even know who the manufacturer is. The MinnKota product catalog shows a 101# thrust 36 volt motor maximum current draw is 46 amps. That does not mean a MotorGuide or other 36 volt motor draws the same, more, or less. It was also pointed out that the current crop of trolling motors are digitally controlled and not speed coil (resistance controlled) so you still need a motor control circuit. You can directly feed the motor but it would only run full speed. You could also build a resistance type speed control but there again, the components need to dissipate a great deal of heat and have high current ratings.

One more word of caution. The cheap power supplies you were linked to will work in series ONLY if they have totally isolated chassis, grounds and are transformer equipped. Keep in mind that the green chassis ground wire for all three of those units would be tied together wherever the three are plugged in. Additionally, if the chassis and negative side of the output are at chassis ground, you have an issue if you try to connect them in series. If you cannot isolate grounds you will get sparks. I also question the duty cycle on those units. I would need proof that those supplies can truly deliver 40+ amps continuously over a several hour period. I certainly don't mean to dash your plans, but I do want to make sure you understand the potential problems you can encounter. Experimentation always costs more than doing a thorough design because mistakes are made and good money is spent on things that don't work as planned.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

The motor looks like a MotorGuide. (My MG bowmount TM has scallops in the nose and end caps, like the one pictured).

I'd say ST's guess of 46 amps +- max draw is probably close. I like the idea of running the 12vpower supplies in series (if possible, sounds like it is) but I'd want 50 amp power supplies, 60 amp even better.

ST, isn't the max current rating of a TM measured at "stall speed" (IE: motor stuck in the weeds)? I doubt the pool motor will see the same conditions a trolling motor would,,, unless a bikini got jammed up in it

How is the motor speed controlled? 5 distinct speed settings or infinite variable speed? Reason I ask is, since they used a trolling motor, "motor",,, I would half think they also used a trolling motor speed controller, or speed selection switch.

If it uses an electronic "trolling motor" controller, I wonder if any noise from the switching power supplies would cause problems. The controller usually runs off battery power (no noise), so noise from the power supplies could cause problems, maybe.... (slim chance)

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

Maximum current draw on an electric motor happens at two points: 1) Start-up and 2) stalled rotor. Start-up current is maximum for a very short period since the rotor begins turning almost immediately. Actual run current depends on how efficient the prop is and the speed of the motor. Because of the number of variables involved with prop sizes and motor speed the manufacturers don't publish full spectrum current draw curves. Believe me, they have them but they just don't publish them. There have been four basic speed control techniques over the years. 1) speed coils, 2) MOS-FET, 3) analog - electronic and 4) digital - electronic. Numbers 2, 3, and 4, would indeed require a speed control from the motor manufacturer or one would need to be manufactured. Whether or not the electronic speed controls are affected by the switcher style power supplies is something one would have to try which again falls into the "trial and error" category I pointed out earlier. The only one of the four that would not be noise sensitive is the speed coil system which works just like the fan speed control on older cars. It is wasteful in that the resistors simply get hot as they bleed off excess current. The motor and speed control system therefore draws nearly the same current regardless of motor speed.

I'm getting the impression the OP's system is not actually broken and that he just wants to eliminate the batteries. I stand by my original thought. Keep the batteries, add a three bank charger (even if its only a 10A per channel). Have it set up to disconnect when the motor is running and turn on when the motor is off which is very simple to do. If the batteries are already available, but the control system is not functioning, then perhaps a new MotorGuide control board (if that's the motor manufacturer) will solve the control issue. Nothing else would be needed. Further, I can't believe this system was originally designed WITHOUT battery charging capability. That capability may still be functional so even the three channel charger would not be required. There are simply too many unknowns here and we don't seem to get clear answers from the OP as to what works and what doesn't.

 

[egwj26]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

Silvertip > You are right, the system is working perfectly and there's charging capability. I'm simply looking at the option of running the system without batteries. Hoping to explore alternatives then stick to the pre-designed system.

Bruce > the rotor is from motorguide =)

Maximum current draw on an electric motor happens at two points: 1) Start-up and 2) stalled rotor. Start-up current is maximum for a very short period since the rotor begins turning almost immediately. Actual run current depends on how efficient the prop is and the speed of the motor. Because of the number of variables involved with prop sizes and motor speed the manufacturers don't publish full spectrum current draw curves. Believe me, they have them but they just don't publish them. There have been four basic speed control techniques over the years. 1) speed coils, 2) MOS-FET, 3) analog - electronic and 4) digital - electronic. Numbers 2, 3, and 4, would indeed require a speed control from the motor manufacturer or one would need to be manufactured. Whether or not the electronic speed controls are affected by the switcher style power supplies is something one would have to try which again falls into the "trial and error" category I pointed out earlier. The only one of the four that would not be noise sensitive is the speed coil system which works just like the fan speed control on older cars. It is wasteful in that the resistors simply get hot as they bleed off excess current. The motor and speed control system therefore draws nearly the same current regardless of motor speed.

I'm getting the impression the OP's system is not actually broken and that he just wants to eliminate the batteries. I stand by my original thought. Keep the batteries, add a three bank charger (even if its only a 10A per channel). Have it set up to disconnect when the motor is running and turn on when the motor is off which is very simple to do. If the batteries are already available, but the control system is not functioning, then perhaps a new MotorGuide control board (if that's the motor manufacturer) will solve the control issue. Nothing else would be needed. Further, I can't believe this system was originally designed WITHOUT battery charging capability. That capability may still be functional so even the three channel charger would not be required. There are simply too many unknowns here and we don't seem to get clear answers from the OP as to what works and what doesn't.

 

[RoughFishAssassins]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

Ok I understand your problem, there is a simple solution. Check out Iota converters, these are what most in the bowfishing world run. With all the lights we run on our boats, all being 120 volt, we plug the iota into a generator and can run a troller all night long with no drain on the batteries. They are available in several different combinations. I currently have a 27-40 iota converter which runs my 24 volt troller.

 

[egwj26]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

Hey RoughFishAssassin,

That's a solution I can considered!! Thanks alot!!

Regards,
Edwin Goh

Ok I understand your problem, there is a simple solution. Check out Iota converters, these are what most in the bowfishing world run. With all the lights we run on our boats, all being 120 volt, we plug the iota into a generator and can run a troller all night long with no drain on the batteries. They are available in several different combinations. I currently have a 27-40 iota converter which runs my 24 volt troller.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

A convertor is just another name for a 120VAC powered power supply...that is all.

 

[egwj26]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

Hi Silvertip,

May I ask if you know of the setup for this procedure? And where to get the component?

Have it set up to disconnect when the motor is running and turn on when the motor is off which is very simple to do.

 

[garzilla]

Re: Connecting Trolling Motor to 230V or 110V AC Supply

Maybe a couple swimming pool pumps piped in?
Those things can move some water.

I've used a dc welding machine to power up motors before....maybe a welder repair shop could sell you just the inverter?