Confused and second guessing myself

Dizzi

Cadet
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
19
OK, I put a thread in the prop board and I after a response and a some talking with the previous owner I was wondering the following. I have a 17 ft bass tracker with a 45hp motor and 13pitch prop. took it out for the first time since is has been out of the water for 6yrs. At 5200 rpm wide open I get on plane and hit around 23mph on the guage that came with the boat. I was told the boat used to do around 35mph by the previous owner. What should I expect out of this motor and prop on this boat? I have gone thru the carbs and all is well. It seems to be running good. any help would be great.
 

Plainsman

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
4,062
Re: Confused and second guessing myself

Take a GPS out next time amd compare readings. The weight of the boat plays a role too.
Just because someone said it was faster 6 years ago may not mean a thing.
Run some Seafoam through it as well.

HTH
 

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,570
Re: Confused and second guessing myself

Also you may have changed something that could drastically change the boat's performance. Lot of info required to get you a usable answer. Need specs on engine (rated rpm range and gear ratio), boat weight, type and kind of hull type of things. Is it a bass boat or open fishing boat....weight difference would be like 2:1 which would surely impact performance. What kind of things are in the boat that you changed/adde/relocated from the previous owner's doins. How many people in the boat? How big is your beer cooler?

23 is not much for a 45 on a 17' alum boat, even if it's the bass boat type with the raised decks, carpet, livewell and all. If an open fishing boat, 35? Maybe. Can't comment on the 5200 rpm's till I know more about your engine.

Don't overlook the livewell (if you have one) if full of water. It can severely impact your performance......like add 250# to the aft part of your boat (if located where they usually are), just forward of the battery/fuel compartment.

Just ran a quick calculation: If your gearbox is 2:1, with a 13" prop at 5200 rpm's with 25% slip (slow speed, possible heavy load) 24 is the calculated value (compares to the 23 you mentioned and the speedometer could be in error somewhat). Raising the rpm's to 5600 (reasonable number for upper limit rpms on many outboards) your calculated speed is only 34 and that is with zero slip which is impossible. So you ainnagonna get there from here.

Changing the gear ratio to 1.75 (a possibility for your engine) at 5600 would net you 39, but to get your 35, you could only have 10% slip which I doubt....10% is hard to get.......but if an open alum fishing boat with just you and a tank of gas probable.

So there is something here that needs to be addressed to get from his numbers to yours.

Mark
 

Dizzi

Cadet
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
19
Re: Confused and second guessing myself

Mark,

Thank you. Here is the details that I know I can give you. Pro V17 Bass Tracker with full front and back decks. Live well is OEM and right in fron of the battery box. It was empty. Only my 6yr old and I (220lb) in boat. Beer cool with only a few left. I took off the foot controled trolling motor. So with a 13 pitch prop and triming out the motor I was getting around 23/24mph at 5200 rpm. If I played with the trim I would get to the 5600rpm mark but was losing speed (possible slip??) I did replace all the wood decks in the boat and carpet so this could be part of the problem. Although looking at the good peices of decking that was left on the boat I used a thinner decking. and left out one 2x3 ft section. Could it be a balance issue? I know the heavy side was mine since both me and the beer cooler were on the same side??? I am fine with the top speed since I am not a bass pro running against the clock but what about hole shot to plane? I think it was a little slow. The motor has a dolphin tail mounted on it and I am not really that sure if it is needed or not. Were can I find the gear ratio on my motor?

I know I maybe asking a lot of questions but anything you can giveme is a great help.

Thanks
Dan
 

Plainsman

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
4,062
Re: Confused and second guessing myself

You can get the weight of the boat and engine at nada.com
 

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,570
Re: Confused and second guessing myself

The tail was probably added to help the hole shot. They are ok at lower speeds but can cost you if you are a high perf nut which you said you aren't....so I guess I'd leave it.

You may be trimming your prop out of the water to get the 5600 rpm. The fact that you were loosing speed tells me that.

So, unloading the engine allows the rpm's to increase which tells me that the setup is giving you all you are going to get.

Cutting some pitch out of the prop will raise your rpm's (good) and improve your hole shot (also good). Will normally cost you a little top end mph, but you don't know till you run it. Big guys figure about 200 rpm per inch so an inch or two, going to an 11 or 12 pitch will put your rpms up at the top (where they say they belong) and help your hole which is what you want.

Only easy way to figure the gear ratio, if you can't find it anywhere else, is to mark the prop and the flywheel so you can measure revolutions. Pull the plugs to make it easy to turn (by hand) and spin the flywheel and count your prop revolutions in Forward gear. The gear ratio will be a reduction so the flywheel will rotate 2 revs for the prop 1 rev if 2:1. If less than 2:1 flywheel will only turn 1.75 revs (if 1.75:1 ) for one complete rotation of the prop.

I just looked in a '94 Merc sales brochure I have and their 40 hp uses a 2:1 gearbox and their 50 uses a 1.64. So you should be in that range somewhere.
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FYI, one of the reasons for the big change in their engines is that the 40 is the old 4 cyl design of 30 years or so and the 50 is a 3 cyl of current design.

The 3 cyl is running lots more cubic inches, 3 rather than 2 carbs, and develops 25% more hp on the same sized lower unit, so it has more torque and can turn the same size prop faster.
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I am running a very similar boat to yours, same length, alum, with a 90 on it if that gives you any idea as to where you are in the "how much hp is enough" equation. The picture in my Avatar is what it does at WOT. That pic is taken at 50 mph with my cell phone camera.

Getting back to what the orig owner said may be true. I found on my boat that at around 20-25 mph I have a lot of boat in the water and a lot of drag. Once I get up and going the boat planes off and "gets out of the water"....much more efficient. This would be the right answer as if you lightened the load on your engine, your rpm's would go up and you could get to that speed he mentioned from your existing prop.

Like I mentioned above, I have twice your hp and I'm getting more than twice the speed. That's not normally how it works. Higher speed usually comes at a price and the higher it is the higher the price.....but when you get the boat going fast enough, you get the hull out of the water and that cuts your drag so it takes less to get more and that is what is happening in my case......your slippage goes down too and that's free power.

In summary, go down an inch or two on your prop and enjoy your boat.

Mark
 

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,570
Re: Confused and second guessing myself

Update. Yesterday I was out buzzing around and as I was docking another boat was also. It was a new 17.5 ft Tracker alum bass boat type thing....Tracker calls it a Coastal addition or something like that....has a lot of toys on it.....with a 2 Stroke 50 Merc. I started jawin with the owner who is retired as I and we had a lot in common.

Don't know what prop he was running but it was OEM 3 blade alum.

He is still breaking it in but he said his best speed was 32 at 5000 rpm. If my sales brochure is correct, engine is rated 5000 to 5500, 3 cyl, 51 cu in and runs a 1.64 gearbox.

Sounds to me like he needs to drop some pitch also as he is on the wrong end of the power curve and his livewell was empty and he was alone in the boat.

I tested my theory (memory) about a lot of boat being in the water at 20 mph and that was true. By the time I got to 25 things were lightening up pretty good and at 30 it felt light and nimble.

What does that mean? Well at 20 you hit the throttle and the engine takes awhile to pump up the rpm's. At 30 you move the throttle and get an immediate change in speed.

HTH

Mark
 
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