Concerned neighbor (and the greatest thread hijack ever)

[magster65]

Hey I don't believe much of anything from the media these days...
My southern neighbors; is the US in a depression... or economic turmoil or no?
Hard to get the facts these days...

 

[roscoe]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

Well, we are experiencing a jobless recovery of the recession started back in 07.
Many sectors of the economy are not recovering at all, in my opinion.
Stock market is doing well, but is being pumped by the Federal Reserve.
At least half the people are feeling the hit, and the other half are not spending their money.
Construction is not doing well.
And real estate is only recovering in some markets, in some price ranges.

I work in the food/grocery sector, and our sales are still down, actually down 15% from 2008.

You are doing well if you work for the government, or a company contracted to the government.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

Hey I don't believe much of anything from the media these days...
My southern neighbors; is the US in a depression... or economic turmoil or no?
Hard to get the facts these days...

That happened 5 or 6 years ago . . . some things are still climbing out of the hole that was dug. Anybody got some recent boat industry statistics as a pertinent yard stick?

 

[DayCruiser]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

So many companies sub out work to China, India etc. Many are in Mexico. Some are coming back because of lack of quality issues. So much that we buy today is junk from overseas. Many products don't last a day. The good news is that some of these 3rd world countries are slowly but surely becoming consumers. China just announced that they are spending 10s of billions to educate their people. China wants to produce new technology and export it. Of course this higher education will lead to demand for a higher standard of living. Seems the Chinese government is ready for that transition. This will help the US economy. We still will be suffering in the short term. Business will seek out other 3rd world countries to sub out to and move to. I don't think the Chinese people will put up with the terrible pollution caused by unregulated industry much longer.
The US is still slowly but surely recovering from the self inflicted depression. More people are working but many are stuck with temp jobs

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

One thing that I like about the boating industry is that it 'seems' to be more US-based than other industries. I know lots of the components are actually made in places outside the US.

I did find some NMMA statistics that show things are on the mend for the US boating industry . . .

Recreational Boating is $121 Billion Economic Driver for U.S.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

Everyone but the Banksters are treading water, or sinking. Virtually all of my 30-something friends that went to Law School now work from their couch with $100k in debt, my buddy with a masters degree in Chemical Engineering got laid off and now works in a patent office. I can't give myself away to a medical school, or janitor job for that matter, and I have 2 degrees and a 3.9 pre-med GPA and I'm also tens of thousands of dollars in debt. With very few exceptions (e.g the Stock market, "financial services" sector, etc....), most industries are stagnant at best with no clear end in sight. The main problem is credit. The banks have more cash than ever, but they simply won't lend it out at a reasonable rate, if at all, and we can't make them do so because that would go against our "Free Market principals". Meanwhile, they're still "too Big to Fail" and getting bigger by the day. The fact that they're hopelessly interwoven with their supposed regulators doesn't help either. Unfortunately, the same sort of thing seems to be on the rise in Canada as well thanks to the Big Oil boys et. al.
Just gotta be persistent and hold their feet to the fire and elect folks you think will keep them honest. After all, in a democracy you always get the government you deserve. We have no one to blame, but our selves. Most of them have a +90% incumbency rate because we keep re-electing the same 100 yokels from the same 3 Ivy League schools over, and over, and over, and over again, so of course they never learn and neither do we.

 

[jkust]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

It is a bad sign when income taxes skyrocketed but only for the people who already pay the bills as has happened nationally and in my state. A large share of our citizens do not pay income taxes or actually receive a net payment at the end of the year. In my state our governor explained he added additional tax brackets for only a select few out of fairness not because there was a need for the revenue. He of course doesn't make law but he guides what is proposed and signs it into law. Both of these situations have become untenable for me and my family. That said we have a severe leadership vacuum because among other reasons people vote in whomever will give them the most free stuff and ensure they never feel the effects of the new taxes. The moral hazard is in full effect in the United States.

 

[britisher]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

A Recession is defined as when GDP falls for 2 consecutive quarters. We had the Great Recession in 2008 and there were fears we would have a double dip recession, but measures were taken to make sure it didn't happen. That's the 'technical' version.
It is true that one man's Recession is another man's Boom. If you work in the Foreclosure or debt collection industry, you have and still do enjoy good times at the expense of another person personal hell and not all self-inflicted.
Why is the Economy so lack luster? Well, to me it's about the 'feel good factor'. If folks feel good, they will go out and spend, conversely, if they don't feel good, they won't. I think that is what is happening nowadays.
Politics have become so polarised her in the USA, that the jokers in Washington have forgotten about the bigger picture of this great country of yours (I'm from the UK, but have lived in FL for 14 years now). Washington seemingly lives in a detached little bubble world where we all watch in utter amazement at their antics. It would be funny if it weren't for the fact that the American people pay the price of their ineptness.
The US Tax system, like the Immigration system is in disarray and both need a complete overhaul. The Tax Code needs a complete makeover to make it simpler to understand and to function. Large Corporations take advantage of the complexities of the Tax Code and avoid paying their fair share into the country's coffers. The Large Corporations are the biggest culprits of the 'ship the jobs overseas' situation, which has decimated the traditional US manufacturing base. US Consumers/Workers are just as much to blame as many want top end wages & benefits, but won't pay the price tag on US made goods. They buy Made in China and then wonder why their job disappeared. We had exactly the same scenario in the UK during the reign of Margaret Thatcher, when she told the UK workers they were pricing themselves out of the market. They listened and the UK economy got back on track.
We also have the media to contends with, including the internet where news spreads in minutes. The large media Corporations like Murdoch is very right wing and as a result their news tends to have a right wing bias. Many folks take in what the media says without question and end up with a distorted view of what is really happening. I also find the news these days very negative. It's all about crime, who shot who, and there is very little good news these days. This all goes toward lessening the Feel Good factor.
All that said, put Family first and always, ensure food is on the table and spread love around your loved ones. Don't stress about what you cannot control.

 

[jkust]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

Sorry but the facts just do not agree with your statements.

I don't know what to say. It is what it is in MN and nationally. What do your facts say? Prove me wrong please. I want to hear that all of us keep less than 50 cents on the dollar for every single dollar we earn not including any other fee or tax but income tax. At least in Canada they get health care included in their taxes.

 

[rbh]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

I don't know what to say. It is what it is in MN and nationally. What do your facts say? Prove me wrong please. I want to hear that all of us keep less than 50 cents on the dollar for every single dollar we earn not including any other fee or tax but income tax. At least in Canada they get health care included in their taxes.

The Canadian health care system is both funded by our tax dollar plus a monthly fee.
Price differs per province, single, married, with or with out kids.
And people below the poverty line can get it for free or a reduced rate, dental is not included or is some drugs.

 

[jkust]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

The Canadian health care system is both funded by our tax dollar plus a monthly fee.
Price differs per province, single, married, with or with out kids.
And people below the poverty line can get it for free or a reduced rate, dental is not included or is some drugs.

Curious...what is the monthly fee for a family of 4...a ballpark estimate where you are? We have Medicaid/free healthcare for those people that are within a defined income level. Medicaid is broke as it takes in no premium and can not do anything to save money except pay the providers less unlike the also broke Medicare for old people or those with ESRD which at least takes in a bit of premiums. They subsist on general revenues.

 

[avenger79]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

I have a lot of friends still out of work and many more who have been notified that they are on a layoff list and will be unemployed by years end. I wouldn't call it a stable economy by any means yet

 

[rbh]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

Curious...what is the monthly fee for a family of 4...a ballpark estimate where you are? We have Medicaid/free healthcare for those people that are within a defined income level. Medicaid is broke as it takes in no premium and can not do anything to save money except pay the providers less unlike the also broke Medicare for old people or those with ESRD which at least takes in a bit of premiums. They subsist on general revenues.

Did not paste over very good but you get the idea


Adjusted Net Income

One Person

Family of Two

Family of Three or More


$0 - $22,000

$0.00

$0.00

$0.00


$22,001 - $24,000

$12.80

$23.20

$25.60


$24,001 - $26,000

$25.60

$46.40

$51.20


$26,001 - $28,000

$38.40

$69.60

$76.80


$28,001 - $30,000

$51.20

$92.80

$102.40


Over $30,000

$66.50

$120.50

$133.00

 

[jkust]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

Interesting, we just got our health insurance renewal numbers at work...unfortunately our group plan was no longer offered due to our health care reform and had to scramble to change and find something else. I think I pay somewhere around 300/month for a family of 4 as my share. My company pays the other 75%. Of course that is a nearly 10k deductible plus $45 copays. Disregarding anything I've heard or seen about the Canadian healthcare system, In addition to the new .9% uncapped healthcare reform tax for certain income levels, the always present Medicare tax, the new 3.9% healthcare tax on capital gains, and the other 18 new healthcare reform taxes that affect everyone differently, I think we are paying more than you Canadians.
We are more of a socialist nation than Canada (I realize it isn't a socialist system) these days and we get less for our money it seems.

 

[rbh]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

We pay taxes for school, just the basic K-12, we pay for our roads to get fixed, we pay for government to hopefully manage our country province, state, town, city effectively.
And basic health care should be a right to all citizens and have no middle man profiting off of pain and suffering.

 

[idonthaveaname]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

I cannot shed any light on this subject. I am very...very.....very wealthy and have no worries. :facepalm:

Did I say very?

 

[jkust]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

We pay taxes for school, just the basic K-12, we pay for our roads to get fixed, we pay for government to hopefully manage our country province, state, town, city effectively.
And basic health care should be a right to all citizens and have no middle man profiting off of pain and suffering.

That (basic healthcare right) is a good argument for another thread but we are not managing effectively. We haven't had a federal budget in over half of a decade and operate on continuing resolutions and debt ceiling increases. It's like how a child would run things if they had no morals or ethics but on a national scale. The thing is even my 8 year old recognizes this is not how a prosperous nation does things.

 

[jkust]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

I cannot shed any light on this subject. I am very...very.....very wealthy and have no worries. :facepalm:

Did I say very?

Except the 55% death tax if you have heirs and a legacy.

 

[jkust]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

Well I'll try this, how about documented facts and I'll include the sources so you can check them yourself.


Corporate profits are higher today than at any time since shortly after the end of WWII. (Source: US Department Commerce)

Wages as a percent of the US economy are at their lowest since 1953. (Source: US Department of Labor)

Corporate taxes are the lowest they have been since the end of WWII. (Source: US Office of Management and Budget)

The top 10% of income earners are paying the lowest tax rates since 1957. (Source: Internal Revenue Service)

The US poverty rate in 1960 was 11% of all citizens. Since then it has risen to 15.2%. (Source: US Census Bureau)

Poverty has not been shared. 22% of all children (under 18), 38.2% of Blacks, 35% of Hispanics. (Source: US Census Bureau)

In 1982 a CEO made 42 times as much as his hourly employees. Today the CEO makes 387 times as much. (Source: US Economic Policy Institute)

You are hitting all of my favorite topics. Everything you mention is subjective and/or has no proper context associated. I wished everything was as simple as a statistic that is just a statistic. What I will mention first however is that the top personal tax rate is 40% while the top corporate tax rate is indeed 38% in 2013 under the federal income tax system. I know this because I pay the 40% effective federal tax rate....not marginal tax rate. Minnesota is over 10% effective tax rate again not the marginal tax rate. These rates do not include all the new PPACA taxes. I will ask you this...is it appropriate or fair that I and others keep about 40 cents on the dollar while the other 60 cents goes to the government? They earn more off of my labor than I do.

 

[rbh]

Re: Concerned neighbor

Re: Concerned neighbor

Hmm, not so much. More like every Empire that has ever risen and then destroyed itself economically trying to maintain said Empire.

Are you talking about the roman empire and the water wheel theory where the water wheel still turns and works on the outside but the point of rotation at the center determinates, rots and the wheel falls apart?