Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

[mulholland65]

Hi

I recently purchased a 2003 Glastron SX175 powered by 3.0L Volvo.
This boat was knowingly bought with a defective starter and damage to the diagonal mounting holes on the engine.

Attempts by the previous owner to repair the holes has arrived at a point were the threaded blind holes have been drilled through leaving them enlarged and slightly ovaled. The starter is also scrap with apparent water damage and cracked alloy casing.

My big issue know is the best way to
- repair the damaged stud holes
- making sure the allignment is correct to engage drive.

I have noticed an additional 3/8 hole on the engine - possibly for the in line bolt patten starter. Is this an option as it would help greatly with realignment.

All help appreciated.

Steven

 

[ENSIGN]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

Pull the engine out and have the bolt holes resized by a machine shop.it's almost impossible to get it right doing it in the boat and don't forget to put the mounting bracket on the rear of the starter.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

I have noticed an additional 3/8 hole on the engine - possibly for the in line bolt patten starter. Is this an option as it would help greatly with realignment.

Ayuh,... That would require changing the Flywheel,...

 

[mulholland65]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

With the mounting holes damaged is there a way to ensure the newly formed stud holes are in the right position to ensure the starter teeth mesh properly with the ring gear?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

With the mounting holes damaged is there a way to ensure the newly formed stud holes are in the right position to ensure the starter teeth mesh properly with the ring gear?

Ayuh,... In the bilge,... No Way...

At a Machine Shop,... Probably...

 

[zbnutcase]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

Even then you may end up changing flywheel and using the other hole-at least you have one good one to locate the starter with. 'nutcase

 

[mulholland65]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

Is there any disadvantage to using the smaller flywheel. I'm guessing they switched to the larger for a reason?

Would it be a straight forward job once the engine is out?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

Is there any disadvantage to using the smaller flywheel. I'm guessing they switched to the larger for a reason?

Ayuh,... You don't have 1,.... and it may not marry up the the drive, donno...

Would it be a straight forward job once the engine is out?

All drained,+ on the bench, I'm sure a Machinist wouldn't have too much of a problem,...

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

the problem isnt the threads its the counter bore just prior to the threads.
if that bore is ovaled or enlarged you simply will never keep starter bolts from breaking.
I dont think they ever made the small flywheel in a one piece rear main configuration.
broken starter bolts,especially on a 3.0 with a gear reduction starter, is typically caused by either water in a cylinder,typically number 4, or someone changed the starter and reused the starter bolts.
that knurl on the bolt is a one use deal only.
it fits in the bolt hole counter bore and helps lock the bolt and prevent motion.
if the knurl is worn off from a prior bolt installation OR the counter bore is damaged it simply keeps breaking bolts.

 

[mulholland65]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

Many thanks for your help to date.

After reading the last post I temporarily installed the old starter and attemted to start the boat with water supply on muffs. With a bit of manipulating, engine on full throttle and operating the solonoid directly from the battery the engine fired up and died. Twice briefly. Did not want to damage the ring gear so stopped. I was reasonably content that the engine was not seized and ordered a new starter motor....
In the meantime I have been reading the forums and discovered that the engine should easily turn over with plugs removed with a socket on the alternator nut...it does'nt. Removed outdrive as suggested...it still does'nt.

With little history to go on what would the next logical step be to try?

PS Probably not important but when the engine fired briefly I discovered that I had left the outdrive in gear full forward. Doh

Steven

 

[littlebookworm]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

I want to make sure I'm following you correctly. The engine fired twice, but died immediately each time, muffs on the drive for cooling, drive was in gear. Now engine won't turn even with plugs out and wrench on crank bolt. If the starter is still in and the crank doesn't turn, my guess is that the starter shifted and has locked up the flywheel. That's good because it means your engine itself is probably good. The starter and starter mount are shot. Therefore, my recommendation is, if you want to save the engine, pull the engine and drain it. Buy a new starter and starter mounting bolts. Bring everything to a machinist who works on and knows engines. Have him redrill the holes and install inserts to properly mount the starter. It is iffy, at best, but it's worth a shot. But, before you do that, pull the starter and then try to turn the crankshaft. If it turns, proceed as I suggested. if not, I'd recommend a new engine so you can enjoy your boat, not suffer from aggravation. Good luck. Hy

 

[mciaio]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

Would a Helicoil work? Can you get in there to install one?

 

[mulholland65]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

Little Bookworm
When attempting to turn the engine by hand the starter was removed - unfortunately.
I would like to investigate a bit further before righting off the engine with only 170 hours. Any pointers for next steps?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

Any pointers for next steps?

Ayuh,.... Pull the motor,+ drag it to a Machine Shop.....

 

[fcawth]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

Just to reiterate what was said before in one of the posts above, be sure you install the bracket that goes from the rear of the starter motor up to the engine block. As you see from the 2 bolts up front, there isn't really much keeping the starter motor from pitching down when engaging the ring gear. This bracket gives a third point of support at the back.

When I bought my volvo 3.0, the previous owner had put in an aftermarket starter, and the bracket was not installed (probably because it didn't fit). This caused the starter gear to get chewed up and the ring gear to break some teeth. I had to pull the engine and put in a ring gear - way more work than doing it right with the bracket in the first place. I also put in a nice expensive red volvo OEM starter.

Hope this helps,

Fred

 

[cr2k]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

As was stated at least twice. You need to ensure that the bolt locating holes (the open hole just before the threads) are in proper order and use NEW bolts.
For this to be a reliable fix you need to pull the motor and have a machine shop re construct the area.

Most likely fix would be either weld up everything and re bore/rethread or Helicoil the threads and rebuild the locating holes.

ANY quick/el cheapo fix has the very likely possibility of stranding you.

These mountings are sufficient only if properly done.
IOW; new bolts, good holes tight bolts and support bracket.
Anything less = potential trouble.

 

[mulholland65]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

I appreciate what needs to done to sort the starter problem - engine removed and taken to a machine shop for repair. Support brackets added. Help appreciated with this

But as Rodbolt suggested maybe the starter broke off for a more serious reason.

The engine appears to be tight - will not crank over with plugs and outdrive removed and wrench on alternator nut. Before looking at the starter issue I need to identify the reason for the tightness.

Help - maybe there is a similar thread with this advice in?

Steven

 

[Bondo]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

The engine appears to be tight - will not crank over with plugs and outdrive removed and wrench on alternator nut. Before looking at the starter issue I need to identify the reason for the tightness.

Ayuh,... You said it started,+ ran,... Twice.... It's Not Siezed...

Maybe the belt is loose, or your doin' something else wrong....
I see Nothing that indicates a real Problem..
If you're that concerned,..
Pull the motor,+ put a wrench on the Crankshaft while on the floor...
Then haul it to a Machine Shop...

 

[RicardoMarine]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

..........................
With little history to go on what would the next logical step be to try?
Steven

Steven,
The starter motor bolt pattern is very critical that it be accurate....... it aligns the starter motor drive gear to the flywheel ring gear!
Without accuracy here, you would risk starter motor pinion gear and flywheel ring gear damage in the near future..... if not sooner!
Changing a starter due to pinion gear failure is easy.... but if in the process of failing, it takes out the ring gear..... well, you are pulling the engine anyway!
So I'll have to second or third the idea of removing the engine for this machining.
Sorry... no short cuts!

The straight bolt pattern is for a starter motor application specific for the smaller flywheel, of which I do not know if one is available for the 3.0L engine. Even if one was available, the engine must be removed to change it!
NOTE and example: (and I know this is the 3.0L)
V-8 w/ 153 tooth flywheel = straight across starter motor bolt pattern
V-8 w/ 168 tooth flywheel = staggard starter motor bolt pattern

Good news is, this one remaining bolt hole is the machinist's reference point when correcting for the other two holes.
The machinist will be able to make a template using this good hole as to locate for the new holes.
He will likely over-machine the existing bad holes and install a press fit dowel, then re-machine as to correct the hole pattern and then machine the correct thread pitch.
This would be the correct way to repair this, IMO.

When you get it finished, be sure to use an Anti-Seize on the starter motor bolt threads (seized bolt threads may have been the original issue)!
I have no issues with the automotive type Anti-Seize in this "dry" location. If this is an issue for you, then use the Marine version.

.

 

[mulholland65]

Re: Complicated volvo 3.0l starter query

Many thanks for all the help.

Going to remove the engine and send to machine shop.

Does anyone know the thread sizes of starter mounting bolts and the smaller tapped out holes on the block for the rear starter bracket....everything here is metric!

Steven