Cold Start Problem

rwidman

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I have a 2003 Glastron GS249 with a Volvo 5.0 carbureted engine with about 150 hours. It's been winterized each season and I've never had a starting problem. A month or so ago I took it for the Volvo 100 hr service. Included were checking timing, ignition,, etc., and replacing the spark plugs. Shortly afterwards, I began having cold start problems. The engine seems to be flooding but won't start. One time I eventually got it started, let it run, turned it off and restarted it without problems. It started fine a few more times and then again refused to start (cold). Since the ramp was halfway to the marina where the work was done I took it there. The mechanic checked for spark, fuel, etc., and then removed the plugs. They were wet with water. He did a compression check (it had been done during the service) and found no problems. He cranked the engine over a few times with the plugs out, dried them and reinstalled them. The engine fired right up.<br /><br />A few days later, same problem, no cold start, plenty of gas in the carburetor. I took the plugs out and again, they were wet with water. Also, they were not the plugs called for in the service manual, they were iridium plugs gapped at .60, not the .35 recommended in the manual. I bought a new set of plugs, gapped them, installed them and the engine fired right up.<br /><br />I've now taken to starting the engine before heading for the ramp. Today, same thing, no cold start and the plugs were wet.<br /><br />The marina owner is suggesting that there is water intrusion through the exhaust because the risers are not high enough. I find this hard to believe because it worked fine for about three years and I've had no problems restarting on the water.<br /><br />He also suspects water in the gas. The gas in the fuel filter shows no signs of water. He suggested adding a few cans of "dry gas" which I did. In retrospect, this was probably not a good idea, I just added more ethanol to the fuel. It's entirely possible that rainwater or water from washing the boat got into the tank through the filler cap. I remember finding it somewhat loose once.<br /><br />Since the compression checks were fine, I cannot think of a way water could be getting to the spark plugs except through the fuel system but I can't see any water. Also, when and if I do get it started, it runs fine and restarts after several hours without difficulty.<br /><br />I'm beginning to suspect a problem related to "phase separation" of the fuel. Web searches on the subject indicate that with enough water in ethanol blended fuel, it will separate into layers and cause starting problems.<br /><br /> http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/oxy-nona/concerns.shtml <br /><br />The solution seems to be to discard the fuel and start over with fresh fuel. Pretty hard to do with an inboard tank.<br /><br />Thoughts? Suggestions? Is there a way to test fuel for phase separation?
 

Don S

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Re: Cold Start Problem

You are reading way too much into "Phase Seperation" no way is that going to fill your cylinders with water.<br />You may be getting water in when you launch the boat. Do you have more weight in the back now? Backing in faster and forcing water in. Is the drive usually up or down?<br />You might also want to pull the risers and replace the gaskets and look at the risers and manifolds.<br />What is the serial number and full model number of your engine, I would like to look up the proper plugs.
 

JLowe59

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Re: Cold Start Problem

Ron, sounds like water in fuel, but it easy to check even with inboard tank. Simply disconnect the fuel line from the inboard tank. Get a portable tank and connect the fuel line directly to the portable. It might be a pain but after that is done you can rule out any fuel problems. Remember that there might be fuel in the line so get it running like before then shut her down and restart from the good portable tank. Good luck<br />Jim
 

rwidman

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Re: Cold Start Problem

Don,<br /><br />I don't know where to look on the engine for the serial number, but according to my paperwork, it's 4012078403.<br /><br />As for getting water in when I launch the boat, the marina owner suggested that also but I've launched the boat dozens of times in the past without this problem, the drive is up when it's being launched, and twice now I've had the problem with the boat on the trailer in the driveway. No launching, just muffs.<br /><br />I don't believe there's much water in the cylinders, it cranks over at normal speed.<br /><br />This morning, I pumped the throttle once and turned the key. It seemed to start and then immediately quit. It seems to either start instantly, or not at all.
 

rwidman

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Re: Cold Start Problem

Originally posted by JL Crestliner1979:<br /> Ron, sounds like water in fuel, but it easy to check even with inboard tank. Simply disconnect the fuel line from the inboard tank. Get a portable tank and connect the fuel line directly to the portable. It might be a pain but after that is done you can rule out any fuel problems. Remember that there might be fuel in the line so get it running like before then shut her down and restart from the good portable tank. Good luck<br />Jim
There's a seperator, then an electric pump, then a line to the carburator. Can I just run a fuel line from an external tank to the carburator and keep the tank above the carburator (I'm gussing I can disconect the power to the pump) or should I try to connect the tank to the seperator or the pump?
 

rwidman

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Re: Cold Start Problem

I should have mentioned that the engine has the Volvo flush system with a hose connection so the engine is flushed without running it. Still, I can't see any way water could get from the cooling system into the cylinders without a cracked block or blown head gasket.<br /><br />BTW: My level of mechanical experience - half a$$ed shade tree mechanic when I was much younger and cars had carburetors. ;)
 

Don S

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Re: Cold Start Problem

Still, I can't see any way water could get from the cooling system into the cylinders without a cracked block or blown head gasket.
If you have the bow of the boat real low, it's possible. I've seen this happen with boats that sit on hills with the bow on the low side.<br /><br />Your engine is actually a 2002 model and is a 5.0GL-B model. <br />You have a Delco EST distributor and the plugs should be gapped at .060.<br />As far as what type, well, I'm at home and only have the Volvo number which means nothing as to what type plug it should be. But the iridium plugs installed are probably the correct ones if it's the AC 41-932 plugs.<br /><br />What manual are you looking at that says .035 for the plug gap?
 

rwidman

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Re: Cold Start Problem

It's a Seloc #3606 covering 1992 - 2003 models. It calls for Champion RS12YC or AC MR43LTS gapped at .035 (5.0GL). 5.0GXi and OSi call for the iridium plug and a .060 gap. Actually it says "N/A" meaning there is no Champion or AC plug to fit. And the boat sits very close to level. It's on a trailer and no need to chock the wheels (but I do anyway).
 

JLowe59

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Re: Cold Start Problem

I would not just connect it to the carburetor. I believe the psi from the fuel pump needs to be the right pressure, but connect it right before it goes into the seperator in place of the fuel line comming from the tank.<br />Again it may be simple but I think you should rule that out before digging into anything else.<br />Good luck <br />Jim
 

rwidman

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Re: Cold Start Problem

I removed the water separator and poured ths contents into a glass jar. No sign of actual water (I've done this before) but it's a light brown color compared the gas I bought today for the mower which is clear. It doesn't seem to smell quite the same either.<br /><br />Also, there was water on all the plugs except for the one on the right front which seemed to be relatively dry. This is how they were when the mechanic looked at them also.<br /><br />UPDATE: I installed dry plugs and replaced the fuel in the separator with fresh gasoline and it fired right up. I'm sure it's not fixed, though.
 

rwidman

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Re: Cold Start Problem

Update:

The above didn't solve anything.

I siphoned out all the fuel (found an access plug in the mid berth floor to the level sender), replaced it with fresh fuel, and it's been starting fine ever since. d:)

I'm still in the "test start it before you head for the ramp" mode.
 

Wotknot

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Re: Cold Start Problem

Since you're in Charleston, SC, I'm going to "assume" you're boating in salt water. If so, I'd definitely do what Don said and check the risers, manifolds, gaskets.

Another possibility, condensation forming in the gas tank and/or old gas from last season beginning to break down. Always keep your tank as full as you can during long durations of non-boating activity. Less chance of air condensing inside the tank.

And finally, option #3........ some jerk has poured something down in your tank. Possibly? Not as probable, but in today's world who knows.
 

rwidman

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Re: Cold Start Problem

Not condensation, I've been keeping the tank full from day 1.

Stale fuel? I've got a 52 gallon tank and often use 5 - 10 gallons per outing so it's possible. I'm adding new fuel to old but some old remains.

Jerk pouring something in the tank? It's stored next to my house behind a locked privacy fence so it's not likely. More likely is water getting in through the fuel filler (the combination filler/vent type) from rain or washing the boat. It's possible I didn't tighten it enough or the "O" ring wasn't sealing. I replaced the "O" ring and installed a "raised mounting ring" on the fuel fill that raises it 3/8" above the mounting surface.

It's still very difficult to understand how the engine would run fine once started but had great difficulty starting and left water on the plugs when it didn't. And the gas I siphoned out seems to work fine in the lawnmower.

As for the manifolds/risers, it starts fine with fresh gas so I think that rules out a manifold/riser problem.

Thanks to everyone for the help and suggestions.
 

bamadave

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Re: Cold Start Problem

Contaminated fuel just contaminates fresh fuel that has been just added. It's a reasonable statement to say you top off your tank to prevent condensation, like I do in my plane, BUT, aviation fuel is 100lowlead, not the 87 or 89 that most marina's sell. Planes have a metal tank that causes more condensation than plastic. Not to say plastic won't cause condensation. My recommendation to my customers is not to put any more in your tank than you will burn in the next two weeks. We only sell 4 stroke Honda's on our pontoons (Crest)and the small ones( 50 or smaller) sip gas. 25 gallon tank could take months to burn and the gas turns to crap meantime.
 
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