Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

[mrainey889]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26547706/wid=18298287

Just saw this at MSNBC's website. I wonder how long it will be until these new regulations will be required on production boats. I also wonder how a 800-900 degree catalytic converter will be compatible with USCG rules...

Got to love this crap. A decree from on high to meet a new requirement, but no money or consideration of how to get the job done for the manufacturers of the products effected.

Hmm...I would bet the horsepower and fuel economy numbers on new boats goes down a bit in the near future. I hope I am wrong...

 

[dodgeramsst2003]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

Well, seeing as how I work in the industry for a company that specializes in helping these companies meets emissions requirements, I don't have a problem with the new regs. That being said, yes the price will go up, but not as much as the dooms day people predict. Once you spread the cost of research, and implementation over 1000's even millions of units, the cost goes down significantly. Second, the marine world hasn't done much in the past 50 years to make a more efficient product (I'm talking strictly I/O's here as outboards have been forced too). The EFI boats are using historic calibrations because they can and its easy. Now that they have to spend some time looking at emissions there is going to be new technology introduced and fuel economy will go up. You can only "clean" up exhaust so much with external devices, you really need to start with a more efficient engine. The marine regulations that they are talking about aren't really that hard to meet given current technology so I wouldn't worry about it. Engine technology has come a long way especially in the last 10 yrs or so, and the consumer side of it hasn't caught up yet. I'm working on products that won't be out for 2-4 yrs, and by the time it makes it to market its old news for us in the industry as we are working on the next round of innovations. Don't sweat the regs, the average consumer won't even notice the new technology or equipment on their boat.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

Yeah, right, and all this is gonna save us money at the pump too. They said so in the article, honest.

They also made some gross miscalculations with the numbers they used in the press release. Coincidence?

 

[Mark42]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

The basic Briggs and Techumseh lawn mower engines can get major emission reductions with small technology updates. This does spell the end of the old flat head 20" push mower at Walmart for $69. Will miss the simplicity and reliability of these basic long lived engines.

Might want to stock up on two or three while you still can.

 

[mscher]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

This is the exact same crying, we heard about cars, back in the 70's, when mfgs. were required, to reduce emissions and increase economy.

Small engines can do the same thing.

Companies do not want to spend their own money, doing something that does not directly increase their bottom line. Tht is why we have big government.

 

[Tacklewasher]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

Ah. When my lawnmower dies, I'm picking up a rechargeable electric. Lawns not that big and I think I'll prefer the quiet anyway.

These things need to happen.

Not sure what I do with my 30 year old O/B though.

 

[WizeOne]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

This is the exact same crying, we heard about cars, back in the 70's, when mfgs. were required, to reduce emissions and increase economy.

And for very good reason. During the mid 70's to early 80's performance, mileage and durability went into the tank. And that was with products that had large prices, decent profit margins and very large production numbers to spread the cost over.

Don't think that it will bode well for smaller production number products. How much does a new 150 hp outboard cost today?

 

[mthieme]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

When will big brother stop picking on the little guy?
I find it frustrating that they can dump millions of gallons of raw sewage in the Chesapeake yearly and not take into consideration that is part of the pollution problem - at least to the extent that will do anything about it. But if you build a house, you have to collect all the rain water from your gutters and disperse in a swimming pool sized drain field. Give me a break.
I also find it amazing that when the Northeast had a blackout a coupla/few years ago and the coal plants all went down, 75% of the air pollution went away in 18 hours. But they want to blame lawn mowers and boats ?
Give me a break.
Heaven help us if I ever loose my senses and run for public office!
As it is, I work for local government and can't even gain an ear for plopping a few solar panels on top of buildings - that already have the rest of the infrastructure required to take advantage of solar.
When are we gonna get a break?

 

[achris]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

I can't see it increasing the price too much... The technology is already there.. the research and development has already been done, and paid for... I read a few years ago that 'the powers that be' were looking closely at small engines, like lawnmowers, because they are a large contributor that slipped under the radar for so long....

On 'improvements', all I can do is quote my own experience...

Same boat... 1994 4.3LX (180 prop hp), I got about 1.7 litres per nautical mile. With a new 4.3MPI (220 prop hp) I'm now getting around 1.25 litres per nautical mile.

So, for small engines, I say ... Bring it on!!!...

Chris.....

 

[mthieme]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

Here's a little economy comparision for you.
I have a friend who owns 8 acres.
He has a new 23 hp riding mower - the biggest one Home Dept had.
I have a 1966 Farmall Cub with a belly mower which I take over to help out.
HP rating - 7.
He burns over a gallon an hour.
I burn a little over a quart an hour.
My deck is wider and I can cut at a faster speed.
I can also cut the 7' weeds down and 2" saplings which of course he can't even think of doing.
(Hence my assistance).
So much for improvements!
BTW - equipment price was about the same.

I can cite another example blowing the emission thing out of the water too if you like.

 

[captlee]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

This is the exact same crying, we heard about cars, back in the 70's, when mfgs. were required, to reduce emissions and increase economy.

I have a 1971 Oldsmobile 98 with a 455 4 bbl, when properly tuned it will get 21 mpg on the hwy. I dont see any great improvements in the past 30 yrs. In 1978 the chevy chevette got around 30 mpg? Today auto makers are boasting 30 mpg vehicles

Im sure the emissions may be a little better today but not sure. The last time I had the oportunity to compare 2 vechicles was about 12 yrs ago, it was a 1968 oldsmobile cutlass 350 4 bbl to a 1985 Mercury Marquis with a 302 throttle body injection. The '68 olds had better emissions

In the next couple years the Scuderi Group should be coming out with air hybrid or split cycle motor, hopefully that may make a difference, but Im sure it wont be cheap.

 

[JUSTINTIME]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/marinesi.htm

the new volvo engine has gets better milage and more HP!

 

[mthieme]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/marinesi.htm

the new volvo engine has gets better milage and more HP!

I wonder how they are going to perform a tailpipe test?

 

[MikDee]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

Well, here comes the catalytic converters on boats, & lawnmowers! Just stifling engines even more! It figures, items like this have been slowly following the car, & truck market, that's why elect. fuel inj., elect. ign., and computer controls have spilled over into them, and you can bet dollars to donuts the price will go up for the consumer as well as the inconvenience! What more do they want to do to jetski's? they already slipped under the radar, by putting Cats on them!

 

[cheburashka]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

In 1978 the chevy chevette got around 30 mpg? Today auto makers are boasting 30 mpg vehicles

That's really not a fair comparison. The Chevette was a tiny little econobox with no amenities at all. If you compare it to a more modern tiny little econobox with throttle-body injection like the Geo Metro, you'll find that the newer car almost doubles the mileage rating and does far better on emissions. The only 30MPG cars I see any manufacturer bragging about now are either luxury sedans or SUVs. Fuel mileage in cars has definitely improved in the past twenty-five years. Emissions have definitely improved as well.

The problem I see with this legislation is that it doesn't take care of folks like me, using early '70s engines that are filthy-burning and horrible on fuel mileage. I also ride a late-eighties motorcycle with virtually no emissions equipment on it, and it's going to take a lot to get me to buy a newer bike.

 

[Knot Waiting]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

For the nominal reduction in emissions I forsee a substantial increase in cost. Not just from the fact that existing OHV engines will have to be modified to meet the requirements, but in the fact that engines that are seen as un-fit to upgrade will be killed. This will severely limit product availabiity, especially in the inexpensive sector. On the flip side this should spurr new concepts and products from major manufacturers that will ultimately re-shape the small engine format we are use, maybe for the better....

The whole thing seems to be motivated by the feel-good political agenda by producing better headlines than actuall results.

 

[mthieme]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

That's really not a fair comparison. The Chevette was a tiny little econobox with no amenities at all. If you compare it to a more modern tiny little econobox with throttle-body injection like the Geo Metro, you'll find that the newer car almost doubles the mileage rating and does far better on emissions. The only 30MPG cars I see any manufacturer bragging about now are either luxury sedans or SUVs. Fuel mileage in cars has definitely improved in the past twenty-five years. Emissions have definitely improved as well.

The problem I see with this legislation is that it doesn't take care of folks like me, using early '70s engines that are filthy-burning and horrible on fuel mileage. I also ride a late-eighties motorcycle with virtually no emissions equipment on it, and it's going to take a lot to get me to buy a newer bike.

I disagree.
I can't think any manufacturer's SUV or luxury car that gets 30 mpg much less boasts about it. I certainly know many people with SUVs - every one of them complains about the mileage. Recent sales trends should make this obvious.
Your 1970's auto can run as clean as a new one if properly tuned and maintained. Back in the 70's and 80's I was an auto mechanic when they decided to add all kinds of ridiculous emission gadgets on cars (that didn''t work). I had a customer with a '52 Chevy Deluxe. Just for kicks, we tailpipe tested it and it did better than the average new car of the day.

Firther petlee wasn't making any comparisons between the mileage and clas of car, just that 30 mpg existed then as they do know. When the first gas crunch in the mid 70's hit, the hi mpg cracker boxes came out pushing 40 mpg. Remember the VW Rabbit - 51 mpg on diesel. Hybrids aren't at this point yet.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

Here's a little economy comparision for you.
I have a friend who owns 8 acres.
He has a new 23 hp riding mower - the biggest one Home Dept had.
I have a 1966 Farmall Cub with a belly mower which I take over to help out.
HP rating - 7.
He burns over a gallon an hour.
I burn a little over a quart an hour.
My deck is wider and I can cut at a faster speed.
I can also cut the 7' weeds down and 2" saplings which of course he can't even think of doing.
(Hence my assistance).
So much for improvements!
BTW - equipment price was about the same.

I can cite another example blowing the emission thing out of the water too if you like.

Your friend must not mow often to have 7' weeds and 2" saplings. Maybe that's why he did so poorly - his mower hadn't been started since 2004.

What more do they want to do to jetski's? they already slipped under the radar, by putting Cats on them!

Maybe they could sink 'em - no more pollution.

 

[captlee]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

Sink the jetskis and bring back the diesel rabbit

 

[MikDee]

Re: Cleaner mower, speedboat engines ordered

Well, if we sink the jetski's, what else will us poor old retired folks be able to tow with the VW rabbit diesel, or 98' Dodge Neon (like mine), or any other econobox, to the lake to play with? I'm doing my bit for economy, & emissions!