Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

[drj24]

I am trying to decide whether to purchase a 2005 Crestliner 1400 Angler Side Console (79" width)with "lifting strakes" with a Merc 50hp 4Stroke) OR a 2004 Crestliner Angler 1400 side console(83" width)with no lifting strakes with EITHER a Merc 60hp 4Stroke or an ETec 60hp. I am most interested in the top-end speed. Please help, thanks John. Crestliner has a test of the 2005 at 39mph in the 2 hole. Would the wider 2004 with no lifting strakes match that speed with either 60 hp motor?

 

[Trophy23]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

Hi John, Welcome to Iboats. I've only been a member for over a year and this place has some great and very knowledgeable guys to help you out of any problem.<br />I am not very familiar with the aluminum boats, but was picking up a Merc engine for my boat and noticed the Alumaweld boats were advertising these lifting strakes. A lot of fiberglass boats have been using them for awhile. Alumaweld web site has a good description of what they think they do for you so here is it's URL to see what they have to say: http://www.alumaweldboats.com/performance.php <br />I have them on both my Bayliner's. For me they don't have as much to do with top speed as they do for getting the hull out of the water quicker thus making it quicker to plane and top end speed. Top end speed to the best of my knowledge is a combo of rpms, prop pitch(and type), and gear ratio. The hull weight and weight position in the boat and hull type, etc determine how quickly you can get on plane and how much horsepower is required to get there. So, I believe the higher horse power may go slightly faster if they are both prop pitched the same 'if' the motor can achieve a higher RPM and has the same gear ratio. The lifting strakes also improve cornering and the decrease 'chine walk' I believe it is called. Anyway, that is what I have learned from people here and a few years of experience on the water. Hope this helps and Happy boating.

 

[Trophy23]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

John, thought I'd add a couple of other sites that help figuring top speed. The Merc site allows you to figure in boat type and weight/length, gear ratio, etc. Have fun. http://www.alumaweldboats.com/performance.php <br /> http://www.mercurymarine.com/prop_selector

 

[drj24]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

Thanks, Trophy23, I trried the Merc site but they say the hp to length (14ft.) OR weight (652) ratio is outside of their formula. THat is why I am buying this boat - lots of speed in a small boat.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

That's a tough choice between the 2.....I'm a JohnRude Fan and I hope the ETEC works out and it looks good so far, but I also own 2 smaller Mercs, a 40 and a 70, both on simular style Basstrackers and I can't bad-mouth either Merc.<br />My Big engines are all OMC before the Bomb took over, and I won't trade them for love nor money, well.....maybe the "right" money, but present day production is going to provide simular results with either engine, and don't get too hung-up on gear ratio as each manufacturer provides a prop to match performance of the highest efficiency regardless of gear ratio.

 

[bossee]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

Hi,<br />Mercury 50 EFI or 60 EFI would be my personal choice. 4 cyl, EFI and 4-stroke should be fast on the boats You mentioned. Evinrude E-tech 60 is only 2 cyl so it will probably not run as smooth as Mercury 50 or 60 EFI 4-cyl outboards.<br />With the right prop and not to heavy loaded boat You should get good speed with the 4-strokes You are interested in.

 

[Trophy23]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

Hi Again. I tried the Merc Prop selector and it did tell the speed and theoretical pitch with the 50 horse motor. The speed was 58.3mph with a pitch of 22.7 . So, since the prop on the outboard that Crestliner is selling probably is much less pitch, the 39-40 range is no problem. I definetly would advise getting a boat that has the lifting strakes. This is not so much for the lifting as it is for the ability to track if you were to start a turn at speed. The prop selector laughed at me to when I put in the 60 hp motor. I think you would definetly be over the 60 mark if they have a prop for it. Evidently Merc thinks they don't, but maybe they do for racing. Anyway, you'd definetly be going fast. I am a Merc person too, just buying a 200 Verado and a 15 4 stroke, but the E-tech has it's good points too. I have read you have a lot more spark plug changes on HPDI motors, but some one on this site also said they are warranted 100 percent and have zero out of pocket expense for I think 3 years or so. Most motors are as good as you take care of them. So, I'd say to do your research and see what kind of reviews and feedback they have on the web and in this forum site. But also remember, for every complaint there may be thousand other happy customers

 

[drj24]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the advice. Trophy23, how did you get Merc's calculator to work? It just laughed at me too. I will try it again.<br />Bo, have you ever ridden in an ETec? Is it really two-stroke rough like the older two strokes. I have a Yamaha 1990 30HP and it is not really rough.<br />Walleye, yea, I read the huge string on this subject in this forum from 2003. I just got more confused - knowledgeable people seriously disagreeing - what does a know nothing like me do? That's why I posted this question.

 

[drj24]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

Trophy23, I got it to work w/the 50HP. THanks.

 

[bossee]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

Bo, have you ever ridden in an ETec? Is it really two-stroke rough like the older two strokes. I have a Yamaha 1990 30HP and it is not really rough.<br />--------<br />Hi,<br />No I have not used an E-tech 60 hp 2 cyl.<br />But I had other 2-strokes. For example I had a Suzuki 65 hp 3 cyl. Not really smooth running at idle or lower RPM.<br />I have now a Yahama F115 4-stroke 4 cyl and it is a huge diffrence between the older 3 cyl Suzuki, much smoother and on idle You can not hear or feel vibrations from the engine.<br />That is my experince.<br /><br />It is like cars:<br />You ride in a 4-cyl, 6-cyl, 8 cyl, 12 cyl and more cyl usually mean smoother ride.

 

[gss036]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

Go to the below link aand read what others there have to say about the e-tec. I would lean very strong towards the e-tec myself. <br /><br /> http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/003196.html

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

bo, the e-tec is not your standard 2 stroke.<br /><br />powerboat magazine did a test on 5 90hp motors.<br />etec 90<br />tohatsu tldi 90hp<br />mercury 90hp<br />and suzuki 4stroke 90hp <br />and honda 4stroke 90hp<br /><br />the etec got the best gas milage out of all of them and also was the most powerfull!<br /><br />the tohatsu TLDI got the second best gas milage.<br /><br />these are 2 strokes, and they, especially the etec, are not your standard 2 stroke designs.<br /><br />4 strokes are neat in their own special way, as each motor has its drawbacks and plusses. although i couldnt see the drawback to a E-tec.

 

[bossee]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

Hi myoutboards,<br /><br />I know the E-tech's are new techology (Direct Fuel Injection, 3 Star rated, rather quiet etc) but my point was that Evinrude E-tech 60 has 2 cyl (E-tech 90 has 3 cyl) and that may be not as smooth running engine as a 4 cyl 4-stroke (Mercury 50 or 60 EFI that drj24 was looking at also).<br />I have read both in boat magazines and in this forum (and other forums) that E-tech outboards are great. It is just the 2 cyl on the smaller E-tech series that would make me hesitate.

 

[ziemann]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

Besides price, the main reason I went to a Nissan/ Tohatsu 50 TLDI instead of the Rude E-tec 50 was due to the fact that the E-tec was a 2 cylinder. I have the fortune of having a Evinrude/ Nissan dealer in my area, and he felt at the time that the 2 cylinder would likely vibrate more than the 3 cylinder Nissan. Given the choices that you have, I would also place a vote for the Mercury 60 for you just due to low RPM smoothness. I realize that the reviews on the E-Tec are stellar- but for me when walleye fishing at idle alot, I was hesitant to take on a 2 cylinder for my application. Good luck to you and let us know what you decide.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

By Trophy23;<br />

I tried the Merc Prop selector and it did tell the speed and theoretical pitch with the 50 horse motor. The speed was 58.3mph with a pitch of 22.7 . So, since the prop on the outboard that Crestliner is selling probably is much less pitch, the 39-40 range is no problem.

In my trial and error testing over the years, I've kept written data on all of my testing and compared these notes to several "speed" calculators, and in every situation I have found the merc calc. to be substantially off, including my data on my own boat with some of Mercs newest and most high-performance props, dialed in to the best results I could obtain, and they were still quite a fair shake off.<br />Sooo....I done some figuring of my own based on the research of Data I could come up with on the boat/motor in question. This is the part I love most about boating...reaching the max potential possible.<br />For what it's worth, I came up with a much lower figure on speed with the merc 50 of a max of 50.3 MPH at 6000RPM with a 21 pitch prop, and I question the ability to turn the 21 at 6k due to the hull design.<br />This is just my opinion on what testing I have done and research data I've obtained, so take it for what it's worth to you.<br />This hull design is going to have questionable handling above the 48-50MPH mark anyway, and being realistic, I think it would be a good 42-46MPH boat, no question.<br />It's fun to punch in the numbers of my boat on the merc calculator and see what the recommendations are, and they, without fail, come up with a suggested prop size that I have already proven to be WAY too high in pitch with their props that they recommend.<br />Bass and Walleye boats had an article on speedos and the merc speedo was the most inaccurate of all tested, and at 60MPH GPS, the merc speedo was reading 66.5 MPH.<br />No problem with the Merc engines, just keep reality in mind.<br />Good luck, and have fun!<br /><br />EDIT; I think those that are unaware should check into the counter-balance system on the Etec 2 cyl engines. I was able to get lucky enough to take several rides in a boat equiped with a 50 ETEC prototype and the smoothness thru-out the powerband felt real good to me...

 

[Trophy23]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

I agree Kenny not to go too much by any theoretical speed calculator. It does however give you the chance to dial in hull type and gear ratio(you can change what they have as default) and other factors on the Merc prop selector. In this case it couldn't even find a Merc prop that would match, it was all theory. However, I think you could dial in the Etec gear ratio and check to see if Merc has a motor that runs about the same WOT rpm and you would have a comparison. Nothing will show you torque, blade cupping, vent hole advantages except a real test. It would be nice if some other Crestliner owners with this model could give John a better idea of what the hull can handle. I did have another prop tool that was in this forum by another member that I ment to let you try John. It just factors rpm X gear ratio X slip ratio to get mph. Again just a theory. http://www.boatramp.com/prop_applet/PropAnalyzerAppletG.html <br />One more, basically the same: http://www.rbbi.com/folders/prop/propcalc.htm <br />Not sure where you find out about slip ratio??<br />Have the dealer take you out and try some demo props to see what works best take a gps with you so you can verify readings. Even my dealer went with a Merc Mirage 17P on my 200 Verado instead of the 19P that the prop selector says should work best. Safety says you won't do beyond the hull capability if you love life. Be aware that insurance companies would not cover an accident either if you did.

 

[Trophy23]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

Oh, one thing I keep forgetting to mention though John, is that the E-tec I imagine is much lighter than the 4 stroke. This is pretty much the same across all manufacturers due to head/intake design compared to 2 strokes. The HPDFI's however do add some back due to the compressor/injectors they need. If a Johnson/Evenrude owner knows where their web site is and if they have a prop/engine comparison calculator they should tell you so you can get another view. I have no pref either way, just happen to have to deal with Merc's cause that's what I own right now. How great they are, I don't know as the only new one I have used was a 25hp 4 stroke I had for one complete year and a half, with zero problems. I just traded in for some new 2005 motors cause it was time.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

We can get somewhat "close" on guestimates, but no one rule applies the same to all.<br />It would be nice to hear from someone having a simular set-up to get an idea, but we still have the uncontrolled variables of altitude, temp, engine running 100%, same prop, etc.<br />I don't think either choice would be bad...follow where your research leads you and have fun!

 

[drj24]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

Again I just want to thank everyone who has responded to my question. Please continue to respond until hopefully a Crestliner owner will notice our discussion. The 39mph on the '05 1400 Angler W/ a Merc 50/4s is from Crestliner's test runs with various motors/props/mounting holes. My dealer showed the test results to me. However, they did not test with an ETec. I have a great dealer from whom I bought a 19ft Crestliner 10 yrs ago. He just wants me to be happy again and will get me anything I want. I am tempted to just have him order the '05/50HP. But the 60 ETEC has many features I really like.

 

[drj24]

Re: Choice between Merc 60 vs. ETec 60

I'm going to try a "poll". Please give me your best shot at the following options: <br /><br />1. 14ft. 79"beam, 760lbs.,lifting strakes, MERC (Yamaha Powerhead) 50hp/4s (256lbs)<br /><br />2. 14ft. 79"beam, 760lbs.,lifting strakes, ETec 50hp/2s (240lbs)<br /><br />3. 14ft. 83"beam, 752lbs., no strakes, MERC (Yamaha Powerhead)60hp/4s (248lbs)<br /><br />4. 14ft. 83"beam, 752lbs., no strakes, ETec 60hp/2s (240lbs)<br /><br />5 14ft. 83"beam, 752lbs., no strakes, Johnson (Suzuki) 60hp/4s,(359;lbs)<br /><br />I will be using this boat mostly in SoCal, NoCal, Texas, etc. bass fishing. I can't go much longer than 14ft due to storage space limitations and the "Backpacker 18" boat loader I am using. This is a great system cf:<br /> http://www.trailersystems.com/ (Take a look at this thing - you won't believe i-t - but it is truly incredible! and works perfectly! Ernie has become a good friend of mine and will gladly answer any questions.