Charging problem-revisited

[ICEMAN]

Re: Charging problem-revisited

HI, I have been reading the posts and have to ask. What is the basic problem you are encountering? Is the battery going dead, If so when? Is it that you are reading the depth finder and it seems low?

 

[fishnfun]

Re: Charging problem-revisited

Schematic, yes I was subtracting the inherent resistance to get the readings I reported. I think I can do the output test, but tell me how just to be sure. It will probably be a few days before I can get a new meter with a working 10A function and get to the lake to test at high rpm. What do you make of the readings looking like the spinning wheels of a slot machine--bad analogy but all I can think of. Like I say, this happens now when I just get either lead in the vicinity of the rectifier, terminal block, etc. The other lead can be just hanging in open air and still readings flicker across the display.<br /><br />Iceman, last fall the engine started cranking over slower on each trip out. I was not using running lights, radio, etc., the most drain it could have would be the fishfinder. I had never checked the charging system before because all seemed well the whole summer. I should have clearer about the fishfinder. It has a diagnostic function built in, and I was using it to monitor the battery voltage. No problem with the finder.<br /><br />This engine starts very quickly, and since I have next to no acc., a full charge would probably start it for many trips out. I could charge it at home and live with it with no problem. But I am taking it personal now! I hate to have something whup me!!

 

[fishnfun]

Re: Charging problem-revisited

Schematic, yes I was subtracting the inherent resistance to get the readings I reported. I think I can do the output test, but tell me how just to be sure. It will probably be a few days before I can get a new meter with a working 10A function and get to the lake to test at high rpm. What do you make of the readings looking like the spinning wheels of a slot machine--bad analogy but all I can think of. Like I say, this happens now when I just get either lead in the vicinity of the rectifier, terminal block, etc. The other lead can be just hanging in open air and still readings flicker across the display.<br /><br />Iceman, last fall the engine started cranking over slower on each trip out. I was not using running lights, radio, etc., the most drain it could have would be the fishfinder. I had never checked the charging system before because all seemed well the whole summer. I should have clearer about the fishfinder. It has a diagnostic function built in, and I was using it to monitor the battery voltage. No problem with the finder.<br /><br />This engine starts very quickly, and since I have next to no acc., a full charge would probably start it for many trips out. I could charge it at home and live with it with no problem. But I am taking it personal now! I hate to have something whup me!!

 

[fishnfun]

Re: Charging problem-revisited

OOPS

 

[Franki]

Re: Charging problem-revisited

I have suffered from charging problems with my last two outboards.. (not this time I think though.)<br /><br />anyway in order to compensate alittle, I went to a car place over here, and bought myself a little "maintenance charge" solar panel.. <br /><br />Best 75 bucks AUD (37 USD) I ever spent.<br />all day in the sun got the battery charged enough so that 4 or 5 hours with nav and cabin lights at night didn't result in flat batteries.<br /><br />my current outboard seems to charge just fine, but I'll be leaving the panel in to keep the battery topped up, (apparently batteries last alot longer when kept totally charged.)<br /><br />Just a thought, but once you get your problem sorted, one of these panels would be a great purchase, (they are tiny, and apparently you can leave it connected permanently and it won't overcharge your battery.)<br /><br />just a thought..<br /><br />rgds<br /><br />Frank

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Charging problem-revisited

fishnfun<br />Sounds like your meter is picking up noise. You may be better off with an old analog for this purpose, or a better digital.<br />To check current output, with everything hooked up, disconnect the red rectifier lead from the terminal strip. Connect the red meter lead to the rectifier red lead. Connect the black meter lead to the stud on the terminal strip where the rectifier lead used to go. (what your really doing here is breaking the circuit and adding in a ammeter)Run the engine around 5000rpm. With all the accessories ON, you should read 4 - 6 amps.(see your output graph in manual)<br /><br /><br />good luck!

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Charging problem-revisited

Yo fishnfun<br /><br />Still interested in building a peak reading adapter (DVA) for checking CDI voltage for around $5.00?

 

[wippb]

Re: Charging problem-revisited

Yo Mr. Schem<br />I'd be interested in that $5.00 DVA. Have you got a "schematic" I could have.

 

[fishnfun]

Re: Charging problem-revisited

Schematic, yeah I'm still interested.<br /><br />On the amps test--gottcha, that is what I've been doing. Don't know when I'll get to it though.<br /><br />e-mail is farmer@icx.net

 

[ICEMAN]

Re: Charging problem-revisited

HI, OK, so I have been monitering this post for a while and thinking about what is being posted. All the information is really good. However In reading your double post on Feb 22 at 9:43 by fishnfun, I see that you have indicated that the charging system puts out 4-5 amps at best. That's because the charging system in the motor is a 4 amp system. At 1000 RPM the charging system is putting out approximately .5 amp, 2000=1amp, 300-=2amps, 400=3amps, 5000=4amps. I'm thinking that we are chasing a charging problem that might not exist. You never indicated the the battery goes dead, unless I missed that. You said it seems to be cranking slower. Do you run the motor for a short time, shut it off, then start it and run a short time? It's possible the battery is weak, which you mentioned, with it only taking 3/4 charge. Or have you tried another battery? You have indicated that the charging system can put out 13.5 volts at 4000+ RPM. You have a 12 volt battery, going to 13.5 volts indicates to me it is charging, Slow, yes, but charging. With everthing you have indicated, I'm not sure you have a charging problem. There are other problems that can cause it to crank slower. Have you tried the Starter System Voltage Drop Test. Cranking the engine for several seconds and getting the reading at the battery is not the test, it is a series of tests between the battery and Starter. It checks the wiring and components in the starting system to see if the voltage from the battery is getting to the starter. If you are loosing voltage in the starter circuit, it can cause slow cranking. Then we have the possibilty of a mechanical problem in the powerhead or lower unit. But before going there, I would do the Voltage Drop Test from start to finish, first.

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Charging problem-revisited

Iceman <br />I think his comments in the feb post meant that he thought that his "type" of charging system put out 4-6amp. I don't think that was a reading he actually took. Since his battery voltage is only 13-13.5 with a fully charged battery at WOT after several minutes, I doubt he's getting full output. A current test will tell the tale, and separate the bull-sh1t from the buckwheat!

 

[fishnfun]

Re: Charging problem-revisited

Schematic is correct, I have not checked the output amps yet. I haven't had a chance to get another meter with a 10A function and check it out. I hate it when real world issues get in the way of leisure pursuits!! Hey, I'll take one of them OMC voltage regulator schematics too.<br /><br />Iceman, the problem is the same with different batteries installed. The engine cranks fine with a hot battery--runs like a sewing machine, so I am sure it is not a mechanical issue. The last series of tests on the water was done with a new, fully charged battery. This has become more of a $#*% bunch of copper and iron ain't gonna whup me. Thanks for the ideas.<br /><br />farmer@icx.net

 

[novacane]

Re: Charging problem-revisited

i would look real close at the diodes in the rectifier hers the scoop 3 pos diodes and three neg diodes 2 burn up you receive only<br />2/3 alternator output amps is where its at little or no amps spells greif and lets face it the battery and the axcessorys<br />(an i cant spell) are like a amp regulator <br />now with amps up max volts will be down a tadd with little or no load on and fully charge battery volts are up amps down correct me if im wrong does this unit use a voltage regulator? good luck

 

[fishnfun]

Re: Charging problem-revisited

OK, armed with my new Crapsman VOM, I head to the lake. The amperage from the rectifer responds just as Iceman (and the manual) describes. Tops out at 3.8A at WOT with a smooth linear response. After running WOT for an extended period, I was seeing ~15V. I had re-cleaned and tightened all connections. Soon after shutting the engine down, the voltage would drop back to ~12.5. No problem, but when I fire it back up it takes a very long time to ever climb back above 14V.<br /><br />I checked the values with no accessories on, and with all on--running lights, finders, and livewell pump. Virtually NO difference. (I guess I need some more electronic toys <G> ). Actually the amperage would climb ~.1 to .2A when turning them on.<br /><br />I took the boat out again 2 days later and the most I ever got was ~13.3V WOT. Again, the amps reacted by the book. I set it to 4000rpm and cruised steadily for as long as I could stand the temperature and never got above 12.5V.<br /><br />Nothing on the boat had been touched. The only difference that I can think of is that the ambient air temp was colder on the second day.<br /><br />By now, you are thinking that this guy is just a **** dumbass, and I don't really blame you. Hell, maybe I am just chasing gremlins.<br /><br />Thanks to all for the help!

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Charging problem-revisited

As I said, a current test will tell the tale, and separate the bull-sh1t from the buckwheat! Now you can rest easy...<br /><br />