Catalyst level and Cure For Billp

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: Catalyst level and Cure For Billp

So how many of you that opened this thread actaully stayed awake while trying to read the paper on cure and how many read the entire thing?
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
70,954
Re: Catalyst level and Cure For Billp

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz,................
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Huh,..?? What,..??
Oh,...
Ayuh,...
Absolutely a Great Novel,......
The plot seems to follow that Cookbook...............;)

Lot's of Great Info,... Just alot of Sifting to get to it.......:D
 

BillP

Captain
Joined
Aug 10, 2002
Messages
3,290
Re: Catalyst level and Cure For Billp

I've been away from the pc a few days...a pinched nerve is keeping me from typing much. Yep, that's the kind of data I'm always asking about. Thanks.

I haven't digested it yet but first glance looks like resin gets softer with excess cat. At least this gives a measurement for VE poly if someone wants to calc the damage. Its the price you pay for hot coating to make sanding layers or when trying a last ditch effort to kick an undercatalyzed layup...and where I know 10x catalyst is practiced without problems (immediate or future).

Here's a link showing much credible data on said frp topics discussed here. It's a long read but will explain in engineering terms with data and charting on what I've always posted about...of special interest to some here should be the engineering applications (values in laminates) and comparisions (strengths) of different fabrics, layups and cores. There's also a post cure chart. It isn't like the one I talked about previously but similar.

http://books.google.com/books?id=JG...X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPA450,M1


bp
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: Catalyst level and Cure For Billp

I hope your pinched nerve gets better, the few times I've experienced one it was terrible.

Thank you for the link, I read as much as I could before I reached the limit of what you're allowed to view without purchasing and from I read it supported everything I've said to this point. It showed the dramatic increase in strength when you get away from CSM and include other fibers, plus comments on why it's needed.

It also discussed the lack of need for CSM in epoxy laminates, even on cores when they're bagged. It mentioned the reason for CSM being spec'd in some certifications was because the certs were designed for low cost poly and CSM construction, not higher quality and cost epoxy construction and were never revised.


As you mentioned, the link I supplied discusses VE resin and only one formula, each formula for a VE resin would react slightly different to catalyst levels and there would be even more variables when you include all of the other types of resin. This testing showed that a catalyst % of 1.25 to 1.6 gave the best physical properties and cure, these results are similar, but not exactly the same as what you would see with other types of resin. If you stay within the recommended % range of 1.0 to 2.4 most resins will work very well, above and below these levels the resin strength may be compromised. There are exceptions for certain types of resin and catalyst, but not for products typically found in normal production.
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
12,932
Re: Catalyst level and Cure For Billp

So how many of you that opened this thread actaully stayed awake while trying to read the paper on cure and how many read the entire thing?


heh heh heh.....i ve read it twice so far.....its way over my head.....but im trying to glean as much as i can....i keep reading it hoping it sinks in a bit more. :D

bond-o said the plot was a bit weak ....its true....but the real struggle is laying on a couch with a puter in your lap and not sleeping thru page 2 !
 

jonesg

Admiral
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
7,198
Re: Catalyst level and Cure For Billp

"typically found in normal production."

yeh, the fun begins when we start to get away from the typical.
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
12,932
Re: Catalyst level and Cure For Billp

yeah jonsey......hey....merry christmas to ya !


thats the thing with resin........youve got to stay in spec for boat building....because we need all the stregnth and stiffnes we can get for boats.

ive also seen a few glass speaker box builders doing real wild stuff.....they are even using fleece for a backing compound......they just make a weird looking thing.....then strech fleece over it and hit it with resin.....so they can litteraly make all kinds of shapes......(see hadrazas console and dash in the compleated projects forum).

those guys go way out side the specs of what resin is made for.....way way way outside the specs......but they can get away with it cause they dont need what we do from the product.........for example they want stiffness and bulk...and are not worried about the weight....so they will run 15 layers of 3/4 or 1oz matt !!!!!

i asked them "why dont you guys use a cloth product.....heck....even a veil" !
they said because the need the thickness and bulk a stronger cloth type product wont give them the thickness and the cloths are too hard to work with on multi curved surfaces......so for them.....a super slow cure and a bazillion layers of matt is the way to go.........on corners.....they might go as high as 10% mekp.......(in very small batches) for a super fast cure.....if we did that on a boat....lives could be lost.....its just a box that they are working on.....so it dont matter if they putz around with the ratios.....

we cant or the part may break!
 

jonesg

Admiral
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
7,198
Re: Catalyst level and Cure For Billp

Merry Christmas, I gotta go wrap that power sander I got for my wife.:p

I'v been to the Philippines several times, got married there, you can see workmanship like on Hadrazas boat done right on the side of the road.
 
Top