carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

[4everafloat]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

Another day of rain. arghh. I live in Northern NJ but I am down in Southern-most NJ (Cape May) where my boat is by my parents place. I had this week pretty much free to work on her, but the weather has definitely put a damper on my plans. I shoulda went fishing. seems like alot of boats out on the bay today, despite the weather.
In response to your responses, first of all, thanks Don for the clarification on the outdrive. I feel confortable in saying it's most likely a dp-a. Sounds
good, right? I did find a sticker under the paint that says dp cd trw or something to that affect. As for Captmello...
"Hope you don't mind my interest in your project. Its the type of thing I love about owning an older boat. Especially when I'm not writing the checks!!"

In response to that, PLEASE be as interested as you want to be. I can use all the help I can get. There is no ego here, and to be completely honest, I am looking forward to learning alot about this stuff from all of you. When we're done, I will be an expert on the volvo penta duo prop set-up. lol. And I can't even imagine how much I will save in time and money. My only hope is that you don't start charging me by the hour. lol.
Well, I gotta go now, but when i get a chance, I will follow your advice about pulling the plugs on the exhaust and inspecting. I pulled the alternator and that was frozen...another bad sign of neglect. And when I tried to turn the motor over, I realized someone disconnected the starter...I ask myself, "Why?" If I pull the plugs, it should turn easier, right? But where would be a good place to try and do it by hand if I had to? Anyway, I still feel confident about the engine. I've seen some pretty bad motors that I saw turn over with a little finesse and work. As for the outdrive, that's another story. As for new alternators, they go for about 200 bucks on ebay...that doesnt sound too bad, right?
One last question...regarding the gas, what's the best way you think to get rid of it. Is there a place I can take it to? Knowing gas prices these days, I'd hate to waste it, but I don't wanna take any chances. Are there any places that would come and pick it up? I'll have to look into that.
Talk to you all later. I have to head back up north to work, but hopefully I will be back here soon to get back to my "real work", but I will continue to check this forum for all your advice and help. Seriously though, thanks all for your help and please dont hesitate to post. I really am relying on it.

 

[captmello]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

I pulled the alternator and that was frozen

I would bring it to a shop and have it rebuilt or they may have a rebuilt one on the shelf. this goes for the starter as well.

If I pull the plugs, it should turn easier, right? But where would be a good place to try and do it by hand if I had to?

Much easier. I've put a large screw drive between the four bolts on the water cirulation pump pully, belts may just slip if the spark plugs are still in.

Remember, parts of the outdrive turn with the motor, so if the upper gear box is frozen or rusted it will keep the engine from turning.

So, as Don said, Pull the upper gear box, First.

I still feel confident about the engine. I've seen some pretty bad motors that I saw turn over with a little finesse and work

I agree, With you in regards to motors not cooled with salt water. The problem here is that if the motor wasn't flushed periodically and mainained the salt water eats away the inside of your block and exhaust manufolds. If there was salt water left in these parts, the block and maniflods are most likly shot, which is why you want to be carefull on your spending. In fact the exhaust manifolds are most likely bad regardless. These need replacing every 5-10 years when run in salt water no matter how well maintained the boat is.

Keep and eye on craigslist for rotten boats with similar set ups. You may find a "Parts boat" with a lot of useful items for less than the cost of the new manifolds and new outdrive. Fresh water only.


Read up on the restoration forum about checking over your boat for rotten wood. Sadly, if your floor, stringers, and/or transum are rotted you may have to "draw the line".

I'm not giving up yet. If the motor is alright and the rest of the boat is solid, it will be worth it. I'll look forward to your next report.

 

[4everafloat]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

Im not givin up yet either, even if I have to turn it into a peddle boat. lol. (althogh that would be a lot of peddling)
As for the floor, i gotta say it doesn't look bad. no soft spots. I had to replace the floor on two project boats I had in the past, but these were outboard bowriders. the stringers look good, too. As for the transom, it looks/feels solid, but with the drive in, I cant really see the core of it. Is there a better way to check?
As for the alternator and starter, that's a good idea. I have a great place to go to back home that can probably rebuild them.
My last question is about the outdrive. My gut is telling me that this one is probably beyond repair. As one of the posts said, stranger things have happened, and who knows, but now is probably the best time to start looking for a newer one if I need it. How can I know for sure, as well as what other drive would match up to that engine and/or plate. this is an area I am definitely not familiar with. The ones I see on ebay talk about ratios, etc. What do I need to know about mine to be sure I get the right one.
But as for looking for a parts boat, good point. I will up my searching. Any suggestions on web sites? I usually check ebay and craigslist, but are there any other good ones?

 

[Don S]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

I guess you didn't bother to look at the manuals I gave you links to earlier. The engine manual is for a 171, (an inline 6 cyl) not a V8 AQ271.
Anyway, here is a link to the proper one.
http://www.4shared.com/account/file/70388189/98a8c277/AQ211_to_572.html
As far as the drive, you are pretty much committed to keeping with a DP-A or DP-B because of the intermediate housing with the trim cyl. brackets and the lockdown. All the newer ones had a completely different setup and no lockdown.
The 290DP may work, but I'm not sure. I think they had different sized pivot pins.
For a SB Chevy, you need a 1.98: 1 gear ratio.

 

[captmello]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

the stringers look good, too. As for the transom, it looks/feels solid, but with the drive in, I cant really see the core of it. Is there a better way to check?

That sounds promising. Where are you looking at the stringers? do you have a ski/storage locker in the floor? Some boats have a removable fuel tank panel in the floor. Again, I would read a couple of the threads in the restoration forum. These checks are mentioned quite often.

I usually check ebay and craigslist, but are there any other good ones?

I think these are the best. Maybe boattrader etc. search used boats. Craigs list is the best for Local searching, many of the other sites ar just dealer networks and worldwide!!

You could post an add on craiglist stating your needs. Also do a dealer search on the volvopenta website and find the local dealers in your area. Some call themselves dealer but they only sell props and keychains or newer stuff than yours. Call around. I found a guy in my area who has been in business for a long time and has a bunck of old parts around from years of collecting. Again, call around. Remember look inland, fresh water!!

Don S

As far as the drive, you are pretty much committed to keeping with a DP-A or DP-B because of the intermediate housing with the trim cyl. brackets and the lockdown. All the newer ones had a completely different setup and no lockdown.
The 290DP may work, but I'm not sure. I think they had different sized pivot pins.
For a SB Chevy, you need a 1.98: 1 gear ratio.

This should be all the info you need to find a drive. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you could perhaps get an SP-A 2.15:1 ratio which is the single prop variation. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!!

 

[Don S]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you could perhaps get an SP-A 2.15:1 ratio which is the single prop variation. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!!

You're going to hate it when that limb breaks.
Sounds like you may have tried to find a ratio close to the 1.98 with a single prop, and came up with the 2.15. But that doesn't work. With a single prop drive, he would want a 1.61:1 gear ratio. The 2 counter rotating props make a big difference in the gear ratios from a single prop drive.

 

[captmello]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

Thanks for the correction Don. Bad advise and inaccurate info has no place here!! Although it does slip through from time to time.

Sounds like you may have tried to find a ratio close to the 1.98 with a single prop, and came up with the 2.15.

Actually, I was basing this on the fact that I'm running a 5.7ltr with a 275A outdrive which is listed on the volvo drive chart as only having the 2.15:1 ratio available. I cannot however confirm what my drive ratio is. Is the difference in the boat size and performance? My boat being a 2000lb bowrider and This gentlemans boat being a much heavier cruiser?

 

[4everafloat]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

About the manuals, I actually downloaded them all (by the way, thanks for the links) I didnt want to admit it, but I actually bought the manual on cd on ebay (it was only 4 bucks with shipping) before I even got the boat, and that had the 271c manual on it, but some of the other ones you sent me werent on the cd, so I batched them all together in one file. They defintiely helped. The seloc manual I have is alright, but it seems these online manuals compliment it very well.
Yesterday, I was taking your advice and pulled the plugs of the exhaust monifolds. I was at first happy to see nothing come out. I got a little eager, so I started to pull the manifols off. I figured it'd make it easier to get to the starter and the plugs. Started with my left side (starboard). It came off easy. A little bit of salt deposit where the riser goes into the hose, but otherwise pretty good. I also pulle the plugs and sprayed some oil in to hopefully loosen up the cylinders. everything looked good.
Then the nightmare begins. I get to the port side, and with the slightest of effort, the first bolt snaps. Hmmm, I say, thinking it's do-able but a pain in the a** to drill them out. The rest I figure, let me see if I can break them...without breaking them. two more snap like they were made of plastic. Now Im thinking why are they so weak? The rest come off easy enough. I pull the manifold, and underneath all I see is corrosion and rust. the plugs are rusted, and everything below the manilfold seems like it was exposed to a lot of water. Now, after thinking about it for a minute, I figured there must have been some sort of long term leak on that side to make it about 10 times worse then the other side. So after looking at the hoses and all, I find a nice sized crack on the inner side of the manifold riser. ah hah. I can only guess that the previous owner was ignorantly running this thing with a bad leak, never checking the engine compartment, and the bilge pump just automatically maintaining the water from floodin it out.
Lesson to be learned. There is never a deal too good to be true. Anyway, for what we paid for the boat, even if I have to (worse case scenario) re-power it, I still think it's worth it. The lack of respect and neglect from previous owner(s) has/had me worried, but aside form the engine and the outdrive (the most important things of course) everything else still looks good. I guess Carver knew what they were doing, structurally. So, I am still gonna remain positive. I have an uncle whose a merchent marine/engineer who's gonna take a look at the engine. He's damn good a finding things boat related, so maybe I'll find a good deal on re-powering it. On that note, I am signing off, but as far as what I am up against, what do ya think? I still say it's worth it. Is it? I mean, what should I expect to be looking at, money wise? Also, about the stringers, it's a cabin boat, but in the floor there's a couple access doors for various pumps where I can take a peek underneath. First of all, everything is covered in glass, stringers included, which i believe is a good thing and the floor is solid, from front to the back, where it ends about where the gas tank ends in engine compartment. Next time I get a chance I will take more pics and post them. I wont be by the boat for at least a week, however. Sorry about the long post. I thought it only appropriate to go into detail. Don't give up on me yet, though. Like i said, I stiill havent come close to learning all I hope to, regardless of busted engine/outdrive, and I am definitley enjoying/looking forward to all of your expertise. Thanks.

 

[4everafloat]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

hey. Back again. I was getting a little frustrated from everything breaking, but after taking a little break from, well, the breaking, I am trying to keep all my options open. My question this time is this... My uncle, who spent most of his life on boats as a merchent marine, is convinced diesel is the best way to go if I have to re-power. Anybody out there done a diesel conversion. I know this is far off the topic, but like I said, just keepin my options open. To me, it would be safer and more efficient. I know volvo supposedly makes a great diesel, and I am sure the price goes along with it, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[captmello]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

Wow, you're certainly exploring all your options. I have no idea what you'd be up against trying to repower with a diesel. With questions like that you may be better off starting a new thread with a much more specific question, something about repowering to a diesel... but include current setup, boat size etc. You may have noticed there are not a lot of Volvo guys here and changing the thread will open yourself up to more opinions.
I do have to say, you don't see many cabin cruisers, if any with a diesel.
I'd be looking for a used 350, boat or truck motor to swap, much more practical in my opinion.