carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

[4everafloat]

I had posted recently about this boat very generally asking for all of your expertise and advice, not really sure yet what I was going to need to know, but now I can get a little bit more specific...
regarding the outdrive, it's a duo prop, but I am not sure what model. Any way to find out? I can't see any serial or model numbers. It has definitey been neglected, as the zinc anode is practicaly gone, but it has been sitting on blocks (not in water) for about 3 0r 4 years. there's some pitting and it can definitely use a paint job. Also, after looking at the pics in the manual, it looks like mine is missing what they call the steering helmut? it looks like the arms/fork holding it corroded and cracked off. lol. Now, i know some of you out there are gonna wanna tell me, what were you thinkin? Well, it's a project boat and I am expecting, well, lets say the worst, in hopes that it wont be that bad (or expensive). So, basically, my options are to either fix this one, or start lookin for a newer one. Any advice. I mean, I'd rather fix the one I got, but where do you draw the line? What else can I do to inspect it properly? Like drain the oil, etc? I am in no hurry, so time is not an issue at the moment. Money's another story. lol. Maybe I should pull it and bring it to a pro? All i know is people, although they say volvo pentas are great, they cost a fortune to reapir or for parts. I guess, at the least, i better get educated about these drives and my options. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[captmello]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

I am not sure what model

Thats a 290-DP outdrive. Good Drive!

You can get parts on ebay etc. Post a few Pics if you can.

Have you had it running? If not there are a lot of things to check first. You've got a 350 with a Holley 4 barrel, thats a good start.

Sounds like a big project. Parts are a bit expensive but once you get it going and dialed in, it can last for a long time!! (With regular maintenence of course).

Is/was it a salt water boat? If so, your going to need some exhaust parts, so be prepared.

Follow up on your threads and we may all learn something!!

Be specific with each new thread, seems to work the best.

Good luck!!

 

[4everafloat]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

First of all, reading your positive response helped a lot. thanks. I kinda figured it would be a somewhat expensive project, but the end product I think will be worth it. Now, to answer your questions, i havent had it running yet. I spent the other day cleaning it and just spent some time figuriing out what's what, like all the electrical and plumbing, etc. As for the engine, i took a peak at the oil, and it didnt look that bad, and I popped off the caps off the headers and they looked clean (no rust or crud) so I am hoping it will run, but next I guess I will try turn it over with a rachet to make sure it's not seized. I also havent checked the gas tank yet. If any gas, i will check it and most likely drain it, as it's been sitting for a while. But from there, your advice I am sure will be a god-sent, as i know there are a lot of things I need to do before i even attempt to start it. Just tell me what you think, and I'll do it, as this is new to me and I am very willing to learn...and not do more damage then good. As for further replies, i will try to be more short and sweet and to the point. One last thing, location... The boat is in Cape May, NJ and I have been trying to do my homework as far as marinas and volvo penta parts dealers, as well as ebay an online. Being this is by the ocean, I believe the boat was docked at a marina on the bayside, and it was salt water. And I got pics I will post next time. Im on my laptop and need to get them off my desktop. Again, thanks for any help and advice. Im definitely excited about learning more about it. Ive always been an outboard smaller boat fresh-water person, so I am sure I got a lot to learn.

 

[captmello]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

With these project boats its important to get it running and operating properly first. Your going to need a manual for your motor/drive. With some luck a more connected person than I will offer it up to download or you can buy one from Iboats.

Before attempting to start the boat you need to change the raw water pump on the front of the crankshaft. Order or pickup the part. I think if the oil is full and after cranking over doesn't become cloudy or much darker, you could hold off on changing the oil, for now.

Check all the "tune up parts" for obvious issues, corrosion or breakage, don't have to change them yet unless it fails to start.

Remember You must have muffs on whenever you run the engine!!!!!!

For curiosity sake, if it were me I'd get a gas can, and run a temp. fuel hose from the fuel pump to to bypass the fuel tank. You should change the fuel filter/filters before trying to start. I'm not familiar with your carb but probably has a filter in the carb body.

Your not far from trying to start but need to do a few things first.

You'll still have some work on the outdrive before running the engine.

Post some pics of the outdrive missing the parts.

 

[Don S]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

Well, you could have a 290DP or a DP-A.
There should be a tag on the upper gear box of the outdrive with the model number. Located just under the bolts that hold the steering helmet to the drive.
Here is also a Drive Chart

Either drive is covered in the same OEM service manual
Here is a link for it.
http://www.4shared.com/account/file...o_DP-C_Drive_manual.html?sId=8u1F4sAiWKty3vr1

Engine wise, here is a link to the OEM service manual for it.
http://www.4shared.com/account/file/64741910/25295432/230_250_251_131151171.html

Now, for an owners manual and other info, just go to this link and type in your engine model number.
http://www.volvo.com/volvopenta/glo...ice/publication_search/publication_search.htm

Just type in AQ171C in the engine type box.

For parts, and part numbers, just go up to the top of this page and click on Volvo Penta Parts > Gasoline Engines >Gas Engines through 89 AQ

 

[4everafloat]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

First of all, just gotta say thanks again to you all for your help. I'd be lost without it, as well as the internet. lol.
after i checked out the diagram chart for the outdrives you sent (don s), i am starting to think i have the dp-a as opposed to the 290. I am gonna attach some pics I just took. Unfortunately, it's been raining here for past couple days, so I havent been workin on it, but as for your advice (captmello) as you can see from the pics, i definitely have some outdrive work b4 I get to the engine. I like you idea about a temp. fuel tank. Could I do this with the cooling system as well, in case I wanna try and turn the engine over, where I can by-pass the outdrive and somehow connect a hose to the pump for cooling water?... I guess for now I will just try to assess the damage and figure out the parts I will need for the outdrive. If you can tell from the pics, please let me know what you think, as far as what model it is and the shape it's in. As you can see, the steering housing looks not just corroded and cracked, but some of it is not even there. lol. if it helps, the boat is a 1989 carver montego 2357. If im not mistaken I think the aq271c stopped either that year or in '90? Well, i guess thats it for now. thanks again for manual(s) links. that was a big help. I'll let the pics do the talking for me now...

 

[Maclin]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

AQ271C, aka 570 went past 1991. Mine is a 1991 and I know of a couple of 1992 boats with the same setup.

The DP-A is a 290, the 290 has a few variations on it's theme. They could be single prop or duoprop, the duos are DP somethings. Mine is a CD Trim model, that is all it says on the plate out on the drive.

I have seen the drives and parts on ebay a lot, full drive, lowers, etc. There are some dealers that keep new-old-stock and rebuilt ones around. They are a stout drive.

The engine is a nice GM 350 with a Holley 4bbl tuned for 275hp at the crank. Good torque, simple electronic ignition, easy to tune. Mine starts and runs great. It is plenty for my 22 foot cuddy, I have hit over 50 with B7 props, but I have honed in on B5's for the type of use I have for it (towing with a load of people on a small lake). It has great acceleration and can get to 48 on calm days with light load, and will hit 45 with any load anytime you want it to. Cruises at 40mph.

 

[captmello]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

Boy, that outdrive has seen better days. I see you have a nice swim platform to work under, me too.

It does appear thet the helmet is mostly gone. I have to admit, I haven't worked on a 290, only a 270 and a 275 which are a bit different. Don S. has forgotten more about these drives than I will ever know so pay close attention to his advise.

Pull the dipstick on top of the drive to get an idea of the level, anywhere in the flat area is good. Then pull the plug on the bottem and drain the oil. I think a lot could be learned by the condition of the drive fluid. Check your manual for help. Hows the fluid look?

As far as turning the motor over, you can do that without running water to the boat but don't let it start. Pull the wire from the coil to the distributer to prevent accidental starting.

One thing to remember is that the upper part of the outdrive turns with the motor whether its in gear or not, so turning over and running the motor will be spinning your ujoints and intermediate bearings between the motor and outdrive. You need oil in the outdrive at all times while running and make sure the drive is down.

Get that raw water impeller coming as you can't do much without it.

I'd rather fix the one I got, but where do you draw the line?

This is the reason for all this checking. Try not to dump too much into this before its running. If the Motor is bad and the drive is bad, You may draw the line right there. Any soft spots in the floor?

 

[4everafloat]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

you can say that again. When I see pics of others, I just think, what have I gotten myself into.lol. it is definitely a project, but i guess im looking forward to a learning experience. that's why I love this forum, because being educated is gonna save me a lot of time and money. If I know what to look for, i can test everything properly to see if its worth fixin or start lookin for a newer drive. Im in no hurry. I got my little bowrider to use, although I am lookin forward to the day this one's in the water. And like Maclin said, it seems to be a powerful motor (if it runs) and a pretty powerful and efficeient drive system.
As for the floor, it seems pretty solid. no soft spots. The only rot was the wood under the vinyl side panels up on the outer deck on both port and starboard sides. Today, as it rained all day, I worked in the garage removing the staples and vinyl of the panels and cut up some new ones and painted them to replace the rotting crap that was there. I guess water finds it's way behind this easily, as I had the same problem in two other boats I repaired. Easy enough fix though. Basically, i would say everything on the outside needs the most attention, as it was never covered or anything, and unfortunately, most of the canvases are pretty dry rotted (probably an expensive repair) I am hoping the lack of maintainence isnt indicative of the condition of the motor or internal drive parts. I'll cross my fingers. Hopefully tomorrow I will get to trying to turn the motor, as well as check the oil in the drive. Will let you know what I find. Again, thanks for the pointers. I will definitely follow your instruction/advice. Good night, all.

 

[4everafloat]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

Okay. here's today's story. finally stopped raining so I figured great day to play with the outdrive. My dad was givin me a hand while draining the oil in the lower unit/outdrive, and his comment should explain it all. "That oil looks really clear;" I responded, "nope. that's water". lol. I guess if you can't laugh, what's the point. So here I come to a new batch of questions for you all. As the outdrive has been sitting for I am guessing about 3 or 4 years, with the outdrive slightly tilted, obviousy water found a way in. Now, my biggest concern is that the water froze (it was alot of water) and did some real damage. Although the props seem to turn freely with no noise, i know this is most likely wishful thinking. I guess I have to decide if this one is worth it or should I start looking for a newer one. Any suggestions? Maybe pull it and see what a pro says at a local marina? I am skeptical to attempt it on my own, as I really dont have the right tools, like pressure meters and such. Okay, that's that. movin one...
The gas tank is Full. I checked and didnt see any water, but I still feel nervous using it, being that old. Should I drain it. How long does gas last sitting in a tank?
Last but not least, although the outdrive seems bad, I still have hope for the engine. I know you said I can try to turn it over electrically (with th starter) but if I were to do it manually, can I just try with a bar to turn it with a socket off one of the belt wheels to see if the cylinders are moving/free?

 

[captmello]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

can I just try with a bar to turn it with a socket off one of the belt wheels to see if the cylinders are moving/free?

Sure. This will tell you if the motor is frozen. it should be hard to turn with the plugs in.

that's water

This isn't good. Insides are probably rusted. I'd start looking on ebay/craigs list fo a used 290. Considering the other obvious problems with the outdrive.

 

[Maclin]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

I agree with Captmello, new 290's are around to be had. It probably did not get water in from sitting, it more than likely had been exchanging oil for water via leaking seals the last part of its' life in the water.

 

[captmello]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

After looking closer at the Drive in your picture, it does look like a DP-A not a 290A - DP. You may want to start another thread with a one of your photos of the drive asking for clarification and seeking assistance on what drives are compatable with your transum plate (If that is still good).

How did the oil in the engine look?

If you want to keep going on the engine, you could pull the plugs at the rear of the exhaust manifolds and see what comes out. stick a screwdriver in the hole as they can get clogged up. See what comes out.

That gas is bad. If there is water in there it would be under the gas you see as gas floats. who knows. I'll bet thats a big tank. For now go with the portable tank.

Hope you don't mind my interest in your project. Its the type of thing I love about owning an older boat. Especially when I'm not writing the checks!!

I really hope it works out for you. Did you pick up the impeller? If so I bet we could get that beast going over the weekend, or at least turning over with the starter, if thats any good.

 

[Don S]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

It is a DP-A, you can tell by the top of the upper gear box. It's angled. Same with the back cover. The steering helmet is completely gone and the lower section of the steering fork is gone. The water in the drive can not be from rain, and it must have been salty. Don't see how anything could be ok, but stranger things have happened. Drain the water out of the drive and FILL it with oil, if for nothing more than to prevent more rust. Then take it to a Volvo shop and have them dissassemble and inspect. (You don't have the spcial tools to take the lower apart)
I would guess there is water in the bellows, and it's probably how all the water got in. You need to at least pull the upper gear box and see how things look. BEFORE you spend any money on anything.

 

[Maclin]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

For reference I found a pic of mine before I bought it. It is in a 1991 boat, is a 290DP, the decal on the side shows DP then under that it shows CD trim

The profile certainly matches 4everaloat's.

The pic is high resolution, if you right click it and "save picture as" to your local PC drive you can blow it up quite a bit and still make out details. Might help for reference, no charge!

 

[Maclin]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

I posted same time as Don S. Again. ub quick dude.

If I mis-stated it (as a 290DP) then I apologize.

 

[Don S]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

Maclin, you also have either a DP-A or B. The C's snd newer didn't have that stainless steel bracket around the trim cylinders and the reverse lock mechanism. The DP-A &B also differ from the 290 by the upper gear case lid and back cover, but more importantly different bearings in the drive. Lots of changes really, but on the same design.

 

[Maclin]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

Fantastic Don, good stuff as usual, thanks!

 

[Maclin]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

btw I did eventually get those props fixed.....:redface:

 

[captmello]

Re: carver 2357 w/ volvo penta aq271c and duo prop

Don S:

You need to at least pull the upper gear box and see how things look. BEFORE you spend any money on anything.

That sounds like fun. This is a routine job that helps understand the way the drive works. Take your time and follow the manual. You can, however skip the part about removing the Helmet.

You will be able to see inside the outdrive for rust etc. Ujoints water in bellow?

With this off you can proceed with engine work. You can run the boat with the upper gear box off.: