Caprice Shudder at Hwy Speed

jhande

Chief Petty Officer
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Jun 26, 2010
Messages
442
I've got a noticeably annoying shudder in my Caprice that comes in frequent and regular waves, that I haven't been able to get rid of. It's not the same as a continuous vibrating like out of balance tire(s). It seems to travel front to rear and repeat.
I've been an auto tech since 1977. It's a lot easier diagnosing when test driving but I'll give it a shot.
Do you feel it in the steering wheel or the seat of your pants?
Does it happen only when hitting bumps or turning or does it seem to happen for no reason?
Does it happen at any specific MPH?

Rotor or drum problems would feel like out of balance tires. To be honest, I've never ran into those being a problem.
It comes and goes away. Travels front to back and repeats. Humm...
Possibly separated belts in a tire. Swapping tires front to back would change where and how you feel the shudder.
I would check that both front and rear suspension is tight, even checking for worn/crack bushings. Also make sure all the front alignment components are good - especially the idler arm which when worn out can cause a similar issue that you're describing.
 

Renken2000Classic

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May 10, 2022
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187
Thanks for the replies. I've sort of given up on it for now (putting other fires out).

I replaced the steering linkage a few years ago - everything except the pitman arm, then had it aligned at a local big name tire shop (chain). Front tires were essentially new then (Primewell - low end). I don't remember any shuddering until a good while later (can't put a mileage # to it).

By the time I got the rears worn out, and ready to move the fronts to the back, the shuddering had been happening for a while, and both the fronts had worn on the inside edges, but still showed some tread there.

I had what had been the fronts rebalanced and moved to the back, and got new ones for the front, but it didn't change anything as far as the shuddering.

It's not awful, just annoying. It's consistent at hwy speed, but not continuously the same; comes in steady waves, like. A car like that should ride like a couch. I've got 2 old pickups that are smoother.

My next step will be to examine the 2 oldest tires more closely all the way around, but I would've thought the guys who balanced them would have noticed a problem.
 

jimmbo

Supreme Mariner
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May 24, 2004
Messages
12,961
Maybe a wheel is bent, been there, done that. Most Balancers have Shields that lower over the Tire, to reduce the chance of the operator contacting the tire. So the operator doesn't see much.
 

jimmbo

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If more than one wheel is bent, or more than one tire has an issue, sometimes the resulting shakes/shimmies cancel each others out, other times reinforce each other, which results in 'It doesn't always do it' statement
 

WIMUSKY

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I have a shake in my jeep. Gonna put it on jackstands and put it in gear. Hoping it's a tire/rim and not the drivetrain...
 

jimmbo

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Lift/support it on the Axle, if you lift the Body, the axle drops and the Driveline Angles change
 

matt167

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Sep 27, 2012
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3,696
Maybe a wheel is bent, been there, done that. Most Balancers have Shields that lower over the Tire, to reduce the chance of the operator contacting the tire. So the operator doesn't see much.
Thats not true. You can see all you need to. Most operators watch the screens rather than the tire and keep adding weight Many modern balancers will even tell you something isn’t right but you need to watch for it
 

WIMUSKY

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Lift/support it on the Axle, if you lift the Body, the axle drops and the Driveline Angles change
The body sits too high to support it. Definitely will be on the axles...
 

jhande

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
442
If you feel the shudder mostly in the steering wheel it is coming from the front.
If you feel the shudder mostly in the whole car it is coming from the rear, could include drive train.
If the front tires were worn more on the inside of the treads then the alignment was off.
If a shock or strut is really worn out it would cause a scalloping effect to the treads. Instead of being smooth like this: ---- it would be like this: //// looking at it sideways.

A word of note regarding especially tire chain stores. Salesman usually only care about two things. Selling the tires they have most in stock in your size. Selling the tires that they make the most profit on. The so called mechanics that do the work aren't always the best or even knowledgeable. They get one or two if lucky days of training. They don't always pay attention for any issues. Front end alignment is done some what quickly and with the computerized systems the allowable window of specs is not really the best. I used to have to get the numbers dead on, not any more.

In my younger dumber days I was a street racer, gear head that loved fast muscle cars (well at 63 still do LOL). I always spent the money for good tires, after all they are what holds me to the road and my life and safety (and others) depends on them.

A few of my recent real life scenarios.
I had a 2005 Lincoln Town Car with top of the line Yokohama's on it and it drove like a dream. I had a 2005 Chevy Silverado 1500 4x4 with no name brand all season tires. It was a tank, it rode nice and never needed 4 wheel drive and drove up hills in 10" of snow. I recently got a 1993 Dodge Dakota 2 wheel drive. The tires, no name brand, looked brand new. My daughter borrowed it for about a year to get back and forth to work (an hour each way on the interstate). During that time I noticed every time I hit even a small bump the truck was near impossible to keep between the lines it bounced so much. The shocks looked original so I ordered them. Since the driveway was ice covered I was going to wait for spring before asking my son for help. While waiting I noticed the tires no longer had decent traction. At this point my daughter had her own car so my truck was now just for my wife and I. I went to a local tire chain shop and asked for General Altimax RT43's. They didn't have all 4 so tried to sell me some no name brand made in china and emphasized that it would save me $4 per tire. NOPE I'll wait the two days for my Generals. Once on the truck no longer bounced or hydroplaned. I'm going on my fourth winter and never got stuck. My daughter has a 2003? Crown Vic. My son and I replaced EVERYTHING in the front end. We got the alignment as close as possible in the driveway and told her to get an alignment as SOON as possible. Two months later she complained that one of the front tires was showing the steel belts. Sure was, all the way around and ready to blow. In a panic she headed to the local tire chain shop. I told her what tires to get and how much it would cost. When she got there they didn't have them in stock and would have to come back the next day. She didn't want to chance the almost hour drive each way again and miss a day of work so they convinced her to get Mastercraft tires they had in stock which cost her a lot more than the name brand I told her to get. When she got home she told me to test drive the car it didn't feel right. WOW it was all over the road. She was complaining that she thought something wore out with the new front end parts. No way, only a couple of hundred miles on them. I looked at the front end alignment print out, it was within the specs but not good. Her next day off she went back complaining about the car. They road tested and noticed the problem, rechecked the alignment and said it was fine. Guess what, I was sitting in the waiting area and gave them :poop:. If they could make the adjustments to get it closer to spec then get out the way and I'll do it. They redid the alignment and according to the print out it was really close, much better! On the drive home she pulled over and had me drive, said it's still not right. Yes, still :poop:!!! My son had a friend with rims and tires (worn out) that would fit her car. So we went there and swapped those tires on for a test drive. It was like night and day, rode perfect. Of course those tires were so worn out they had to be junked but we just wanted to see if the tires were the culprit and they were. She waited so long that her 30 day window for trading them in was over. Now she's saving to get the tires I originally told her to buy. The good thing is she now works within walking distance from home.

The moral of my story is...
You can't always trust the people working on your vehicle.
You never really know what you're getting no matter what you pay for it.
Always check online reviews and take them with a grain of salt.

Whoa!!! Sorry, I just scrolled up. I didn't mean to write a college length essay. :eek:
 
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Grub54891

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As a mechanic myself, I've taken back more than a few to the alignment shop the next day. The printout says one thing, but the result is different. They correct the issue quickly and then it's fine. I get a kick out of telling me I need this or that, when I've just replaced that part myself.
 

jimmbo

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May 24, 2004
Messages
12,961
In 1988 I had a 1981 Olds 98 with about 235,000 on it, and the front end was shot, so I took it to a shop, and they did the Inspection and said Ball Joints, Tie Rods, Idler Arm. I said put them, in. About 9 months later, I was back there to remove the Catalytic Converter. Before that happened, I saw the crew doing the Inspection, and lo and behold, I needed new Ball Joints, Tie Rods, etc. I asked what the Warranty was, And was told 1 year. I hummed and hawed, then said do it. When I came to pick the car up, as the guy was writing up the bill, I presented the work order, and bill, actually copies, from 9 months earlier. I still enjoy the memory of seeing how Crimson his face turned, I thanked him and only said, 'I hope the parts you used were better than the ones used 9 months ago', grabbed my keys and left.
I never trust Businessmen, I doubt there is an Honest one on the entire Continent
 

Grub54891

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Messages
5,914
In 1988 I had a 1981 Olds 98 with about 235,000 on it, and the front end was shot, so I took it to a shop, and they did the Inspection and said Ball Joints, Tie Rods, Idler Arm. I said put them, in. About 9 months later, I was back there to remove the Catalytic Converter. Before that happened, I saw the crew doing the Inspection, and lo and behold, I needed new Ball Joints, Tie Rods, etc. I asked what the Warranty was, And was told 1 year. I hummed and hawed, then said do it. When I came to pick the car up, as the guy was writing up the bill, I presented the work order, and bill, actually copies, from 9 months earlier. I still enjoy the memory of seeing how Crimson his face turned, I thanked him and only said, 'I hope the parts you used were better than the ones used 9 months ago', grabbed my keys and left.
I never trust Businessmen, I doubt there is an Honest one on the entire Continent
Perfect! Good for you!
 

dolluper

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Jul 19, 2004
Messages
3,900
I serviced a fleet of those chevys and have felt what you call a wave of shudders
It ended up being either a broken motor mount or a broken or cracked trannie mount
Only once it was a failing torque convertor but the pump seal blew first
 
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