cancel christmas???

trollhole

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
423
Re: cancel christmas???

Lol Hey guys it's not America that wants to change the name. You have got it all wrong. I knew I thought I had heard this or seen this somewhere. But it's those crazy Canadians.<br /> Read the story! Click Here! :D
 

Scoop

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Messages
1,158
Re: cancel christmas???

JB, Knoxes, Snapperbait, I am with you.<br /><br />I am an atheist.<br /><br />I believe in your right to practice your religion as well as my right to not practice your religion. That right is granted by the constitution of my country and I will fight for it. That is, I will fight for your right and mine even though you asked me to leave your (my) country.<br /><br />Our money and pledge was changed in the fifties in gross violation of the constitution of this country. Does it bother me? Yes. I am forced to look at someone's religion being put over another’s. In addition, I have forfeited my right to not practice a religion even though that is guaranteed by the constitution.<br /><br />I will fight for everyone's right to free speech. That even means fighting for your freedom to tell me to leave the country.<br /><br />I suggest that you really think about what the constitution says. It does not say, people have these freedoms as long as they agree with me, it says people have the freedom to free speech and to be free to practice the religion of their choice without hindrance even if this freedom is not practicing a religion, period.<br /><br />Take a look at a lot of the wars and terrorism out there. Why is it being perpetrated? A lot of it has to do with religion. Who is right and who wants a state that practices just this religion or that? Is that what we want here?<br /><br />As for morals, religion has nothing to do with it. Where are the morals in discrimination? Where are the morals in stealing, or sexual assault? I hear more discriminatory comments from the religious people around me than the non-religious people. Where are the morals in that? Take a look at the news. <br /><br />My child has been brought up with my morals. He will not lie, cheat, steal, discriminate, or hurt other people. He also has complete religious freedom. If he decides he believes in god, or wants to go to church, I will drive him. It is his right to make his own decision, and not mine to decide it for him.<br /><br />This was a tough one to write. My first reaction was extreme anger that someone was attacking me. Not by name, but by my beliefs. It would have been have been easy to flame and react, but what it really did for me is to give me time to move back and think about the bigger picture and what freedoms our constitution give all of us.<br /><br />Ok, one mroe comment. Cancel Christmas. Heck no. JB is right it is just another hijacked Pagan holiday. It doesn't matter. You call it Christmas, I call it a holiday. I call Halloween, Halloween. Oops, there's another one of those pesky hijacked Pagan holidays again.<br /><br />Ok maybe another comment. Political correctness has went too far. The constitution does not gaurantee our right to not be offended. In fact, it is just the opposite. It says that everyone has the right to say what they want whether it is offensive or not. As soon as we lose that right, we have lost one of our basic freedoms.
 

mellowyellow

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jun 8, 2002
Messages
5,327
Re: cancel christmas???

you beat me to it JB, although I have a strong<br />faith in god, I have very little faith in religion.<br />almost all christian holidays are really rooted<br />in pagen holidays... x-mas and easter to name 2.<br />anyone know why we have "Easter" eggs?<br />what religion you are is not important to me...<br />what kind of person you are is!<br />for the record: was brought up Catholic, went to<br />catholic grade school and a private Jesuit high<br />school and both my wife's granfathers were preachers in the "church of christ"<br />my eldest son went to christian school for 2 months<br />until they called me and told me "harry potter"<br />books were of the devil... come on!
 

crab bait

Captain
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Messages
3,831
Re: cancel christmas???

that's pretty funny admiral HOOTY..!!<br /><br />that funny also SLOOOPY..<br />the only change i'd make is::<br /><br />' an a old school bus with the wheels pulled off sittin' in the front yard '<br /><br />it's 'fairy dust' SLOOPY.. <br />don't you know, anythin'..??? <br />that's how he does what he does..!!<br /><br />SUGAR PLUM FAIRY DUST, too boot...<br /><br />if'n JB's right,, an i'm sure he is,,<br />we do a hecka job cellabratin' a 'pagan'<br /> ritual.. all the phony balongny stuff..<br />it's got blown way out a proportion..
 

Tacklewasher

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
1,588
Re: cancel christmas???

Trollhole beat me to it. The uproar came over the Toronto tree but what the article doesn't say is that B.C. (Victoria) has been putting up the "Tree" for years now without the media even catching wind of it.<br /><br />Guess it's just cause Toronto is the centre of the universe that it gets noticed.<br /><br />Anyway, I disagree strongly with the "get out of my country" attitude although I hear it lots from family etc. While Canada was founded (perhaps more than the US) on Judeo-Christian beliefs, we have to allow other beliefs their freedom. Just as we have to allow the Christian's their freedom to express their views and beliefs. Besides, I enjoy being Santa for the office kids.
 

mellowyellow

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jun 8, 2002
Messages
5,327
Re: cancel christmas???

ten-hut! there's an admiral on the deck!<br />well done crab, just noticed the promotion.<br />(I'm probably just slow)<br />there's a town south of buffalo that was ridiculed<br />for having a manger scene in front of city hall.<br />the news always loves a fight, so it got plenty of<br />press. the city council met and heard arguments<br />from concerned citizens on both sides....<br />they decided $crew it! and left it up, it's still<br />up to this day.<br />they were smart enough to discern the difference<br />between church and state, and church and the grass<br />in front of a state bldg. zealots on both sides<br />always make it tough to have common sense IMHO.<br />as witnessed on this forum, some people really<br />have a hard time dealing with people who disagree<br />with them. <br />peace,<br />M.Y.
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: cancel christmas???

JB,<br /><br />I respectifully disagree about this country not being primarily founded on Christian beliefs. The founding documents are filled with references to God and the Creator. How can anyone say they are not there?<br /><br />With that said, you're right, that this country was also founded on the freedom of religion-not from it. That's why the Puritans left Europe in the first place, to escape pursecution. I also agree about the pledge, Congress overstepped their bounds. But, that's nothing new.<br /><br />I, like some others on this thread have a very strong faith. I like others, do not have much use for man made religion(s). I am however a very faithful worshipper at a non-denominational church.<br /><br />This next statement ought to really set some off.<br /><br />I do think there is a connection with faith and morals. I always have in the back of my mind, that there is something else after death (not just worm food) and our conduct in this life has something to do with where we end up. Without that, why not let it all hang out? I can try to justify my behavior by thinking: you probably won't get caught. If you do, you can get off.<br />Unfortunately, more and more of our society have taken that mindset.<br /><br />And by the way, I do not begrudge an athiest for their point of view. I disagree, but that's my business.<br /><br />Y'all have a great-hmmm, whatever it is!! :D :D
 

Scoop

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Messages
1,158
Re: cancel christmas???

Djohns, I don't believe and according to most of my church going friends, my morals and moral standards in all things are too high. I don't need the thought of a final reward or a final punishment to force me to conduct myself in a moral way. <br /><br />I do admit morals are subjective and relative. I live and breath by the principals I listed above because it is right and the best way to conduct myself in a society that gives me more than I put in. <br /><br />I do respect your opinion and can understand your point. Have a happy Christmas or happy holiday, Hanukah, Ramadan, or the rest.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: cancel christmas???

Hi, DJohns.<br /><br />We don't disagree. <br /><br />A lot of "Christian" beliefs are also firmly held beliefs of good persons of any, or no, religion. It is typically Christian to claim ownership of those beliefs, as though goodness in man was suddenly invented with the founding of the Roman Catholic Church. <br /><br />That beliefs that Christians share are stated throughout various documents does not make them Christian beliefs and does not contradict the Constitutional Principle FORBIDDING the establishment of a state religion. <br /><br />In spite of the systematic suppression of religious freedom in our country, and the persistent claim by Christians that it is their country, our Constitution stands.<br /><br />This is LIBERTY's country. :) <br /><br />It is also typically Christian to claim ownership of morality. <br /><br />I agree that religion is populated by a lot of people who need fear of retribution to behave in a civilized manner.<br /><br />Others of us simply fear guilt. That is not Jesus or St. Peter we face in the mirror each day, that is our own morality.<br /><br />Now, which is moral?
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: cancel christmas???

JB,<br /><br />Ahaaa, We really do agree. You are correct, I would never claim to "own" those principles, based upon Christian belief, or not.<br /><br />Again, you are correct, we do not own (loosly paraphrased) this country. We, are just anxious about what is happening to it. Again, I believe we may agree.<br /><br />I have no idea, nor is it my business to know, anyones "faith factor". However, what living in this society has taught me is: can I trust you?<br /><br />I've found many friends on this board and in "real" life that I could and could not; trust.
 

snapperbait

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
5,754
Re: cancel christmas???

If I may quote Djohns19:<br /><br />
I can try to justify my behavior by thinking: you probably won't get caught. If you do, you can get off.<br />Unfortunately, more and more of our society have taken that mindset.<br />
Yes Djohns19, it is unfortunate and you make an excelent point that is undeniable, however I don't think faith has so much to do with teaching good moral values... I feel that morality starts at home very early in one's life with parents teaching right and wrong reguardless of faith...<br /><br />If I may quote JB:<br /><br />
Others of us simply fear guilt. That is not Jesus or St. Peter we face in the mirror each day, that is our own morality.
It does not matter how or where we find our morality as long as we have it and use it... ;)
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: cancel christmas???

Snapper,<br /><br />You May have missed my point. I "believe" that a belief of "what is to come" keeps me in line. I can "probably" beat mans system, however I KNOW I cannot beat the Creators system. To me, that's POWERFUL. No religion here, just faith.<br /><br />Snapper, I also agree 100% that it starts in the home-no question.
 

snapperbait

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
5,754
Re: cancel christmas???

Djohns: <br /><br />I understand your point about your "belief in what is to come" 100%.... I'm glad faith is of great importance to you and "keeps you in line"... I truly admire you for having faith... :) <br /><br /> I was simply using your statement as a veiw on the poor state and lack of morals of society in general... :(
 

ebbtide176

Commander
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
2,289
Re: cancel christmas???

i guess you guys are stronger than i (its also late and i'm tired)<br /><br />i am impressed in those who understand morality. or who understand everyone must strive to get along to live long and prosper...<br /><br />i don't know if i might not be the same if i didn't have a belief in consequences in the afterlife, per my christian faith. i think i might be inclined to look at the value of my actions compared to my society, and just go all out for myself, and be overcome with vengeance and greed... thankfully its not in me, and my concern for others is strong. lol<br /><br />so please -once again, have a great Christmas Season. i didn't mean to get off topic so far. i truly love all people.
 

NOSLEEP

Commander
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
2,442
Re: cancel christmas???

It is a singular fact that many men of action<br />incline to the theory of fatalism, while the<br />greater part of men of thought believe in a <br />divine providence.<br />on another note. many of us here in canada are very concerned about our goverments over zealous<br />handling of this politicaly correct crap.<br /><br /> MERRY CHRISTMAS & GOD BLESS
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: cancel christmas???

NOSLEEP,<br /><br />We have the PC business here too. You're right it bothers me too.<br /><br />Political correctness is nothing other than thought CONTROL.
 

flashback

Captain
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Messages
3,963
Re: cancel christmas???

everyone here, who declares there faith or lack of, is in a delicate place. you who believe will no longer respect the words of those who do not. This country was built by christians, and that religion runs deep. there are many others here that do not believe in Christ. is that a sin?Depends on where your at. I don.t think anyone on this forum should say who or what they are or what they believe in.....lets keep it lite accept for boating issues, which we all have in common, weather christian, jew, buddist,muslim, etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,.........
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: cancel christmas???

Flashback,<br /><br />Who said anything about not trusting-non believers? I just "wonder" (not judge) how I (not you) could work through some things without that knowledge/faith.<br /><br />BTW, this is the "Nothing To Do With Boats" thread. ;) :D
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: cancel christmas???

Yup. Got another "Christian owned" term: Faith.<br /><br />Just what is it???<br /><br />If it is strong belief that your values are good and right, most of us have it. It has nothing to do with being. . . whatever.<br /><br />If it is just another buzzword used to exclude non-Christians from the worthy in this world, let's not use it. Please?<br /><br />Thanks. :)
 
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