Can someone PLEASE tell me which bellows are which? taking on some water...

[fordplayin']

I have a 1995, 190 Horizon with cobra OMC outdrive. We had it stored for almost 10 years in our garage. Got it in the water yesterday & it ran really well. However, two things I noticed were the depth finder was completely off... reading like 546ft when we were putting the boat in, so it should have been maybe 6ft. Second, we were taking on some water, not a ton, but we shouldn't have been taking on any. I would say I could have run the bilge once an hour and it would have run between 5 & 10 seconds. I started getting obsessed over it and at times ran it every 15min and it sometimes spit out 2-4 seconds of water, sometimes nothing. We're trying to figure out if A. the depth finder could have anything to do with this? Or B. the more likely scenario after boat sitting, something in lower unit, or transom is causing this? We did not see anything leaking, made no noises, and ran amazing. The bottom bellow looks almost cracky or slightly dry rotted and like it has tiny holes, however I believe it is supposed to be that way and that it is the exhaust? I'm not sure from there what other bellows there are, I thought there were 3, but I see only one other and it looks fine.
I should also mention at times it appeared the water coming out of the bilge pump could have been greasy or soapy. Unfortunately, this half has me thinking lower unit oil/lube, but half of me knows we tore into the boat got rid of a mouse home, took the entire gas tank out to make sure it was okay after so long, and cleaned the insides well! It would not surprise me that those cleaning products could be in the hull now and came out the bilge. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Also if someone would kindly let me know the bellow order thanks so much!

 

[southkogs]

Welcome aboard:
Where is your transducer mounted? If it's through hull, it could be leaking. If it's off the stern, then probably not the cause. Does the depth finder have a calibration tool?

My suggestion is to find where the water is coming in. Put the boat in the water, stick your head into the bilge and see where it comes from. That's the only way to really know what to solve.

 

[fordplayin']

The transponder is underneath and through the hull. My husband said he could put his fingernail around the edge of it so I'm thinking if we put some water in the boat now on dry land & its that it would drip out bottom right? We were out yesterday for about 4 hours and never saw where it was coming in at, however I realize it could take a lot of acrobatics to find the source.
Do you know about the bellows? and if the bottom one should look differently than the top, like obviously different?
Thank you so much for your quick response!!

 

[Lou C]

Bottom one is the exhaust bellows, it will usually have a series of slits in it, this and the exhaust Y pipe are both full of water when the boat is in the water, that water will be nearly up to the level of the rubber hoses that come down from the exhaust elbows onto the Y pipe on each side, it will drain out mostly when you pull the boat, the driveshaft bellows is the upper one, it should never have water in it. I'd pull the boat, pull the outdrive and check the driveshaft bellows for water. If you find any replace it and the gimble bearing, as well as the u joints, if there is any doubt to their condition.
Also make sure to re-bed that through the hull transducer which may be your problem. I have a transom mount that works well, the less holes in a boat the better!

TRANSOM MOUNT - 1995 Stern Drive 5 502APHUB | Crowley Marine

View parts diagrams and shop online for TRANSOM MOUNT parts, 1995 Stern Drive 5 502APHUB. Offering discount prices on OEM parts for over 50 years. FAST $4.95 shipping available.

www.crowleymarine.com

in the diagram, #7 is the driveshaft bellows, #31 is the exhaust bellows
BTW the '95 Cobra is bascially the same as a Volvo Penta SX of the same year, Volvo parts will fit if you can't source OMC parts easily where you are.
I have found that if the boat is stored with the drive down, you can get approx 10 years out of the driveshaft bellows before small cracks start to form. I replaced my last one after 11 years, but always inspect it and if any cracks form it will get replaced promptly.
BTW, that is the key to I/O maintenance...."replaced promptly" this will help avoid problems and expensive headaches.

 

[fordplayin']

I gotcha now, that makes complete sense... I was struggling to understand why the water would not come in that lower bellow, sometimes I just need a thorough explanation and it hits ya!
So running water through with muffs should put water in bilge if its a seal or anything in the outdrive right? Eliminating the possibility of the depth finder? Or not necessarily? My husband and I can build a house, do hardscaping almost any project in that manor but engines can be beyond us at times. Thank you all so much for your help!

 

[Scott Danforth]

The transponder is underneath and through the hull. My husband said he could put his fingernail around the edge of it so I'm thinking if we put some water in the boat now on dry land & its that it would drip out bottom right? We were out yesterday for about 4 hours and never saw where it was coming in at, however I realize it could take a lot of acrobatics to find the source.
Do you know about the bellows? and if the bottom one should look differently than the top, like obviously different?
Thank you so much for your quick response!!

never fill the boat up with water. to get high enough for most leaks you literally need to add 2-3 tons of water. this damages the trailer and damages the boat.

plus water gets into areas it never would normally, then just promotes rot

bilge water is always greasy and dirty because people do not clean their bilges. oil gets dropped from normal maintenance, sometimes there can be an oil leak or simply the aerosols from the breathers condense. (I tend to scrub mine about once a year with dawn dish soap)

put the boat in the water (can be sitting on the trailer) get in the bilge with mirrors, flashlights and you cant get your head in there, your camera on selfie mode and look.

most likely if you just pulled the boat out after 10 years and did not replace the bellows or impeller, those rubber bits are done from sitting

additionally, with your boat being a 1995 be prepared that you may have a rotten transom.

 

[Lou C]

I gotcha now, that makes complete sense... I was struggling to understand why the water would not come in that lower bellow, sometimes I just need a thorough explanation and it hits ya!
So running water through with muffs should put water in bilge if its a seal or anything in the outdrive right? Eliminating the possibility of the depth finder? Or not necessarily? My husband and I can build a house, do hardscaping almost any project in that manor but engines can be beyond us at times. Thank you all so much for your help!

No. The only way that running the engine on the muffs will put water in the bilge, is if your hoses for the exhaust system, or the gasket where the exhaust Y pipe is bolted to the transom mount leaks, or if the Y pipe rots through somewhere and leaks. Rusted exhaust manifolds and elbows can leak too, not as common in freshwater but its a possibility.
If a seal in the outdrive leaks, you will see water in the outdrive gear oil which by the way should be changed each fall and checked for water.

INTAKE MANIFOLD, EXHAUST & COOLING - 1995 Stern Drive 5 502APHUB | Crowley Marine

View parts diagrams and shop online for INTAKE MANIFOLD, EXHAUST & COOLING parts, 1995 Stern Drive 5 502APHUB. Offering discount prices on OEM parts for over 50 years. FAST $4.95 shipping available.

www.crowleymarine.com

Here's the schematic for your exhaust system. When the engine is running, and before the thermostat opens, whether in the water or not (on the muffs) water flows up the raw water hose to the impeller, then gets pumped to the thermostat housing, where it then goes out the exhaust system (keep in mind the exhaust manifolds and elbows are water cooled). This water exits via the rubber hoses that connect the exhaust elbows to the Y pipe and then that exits via the transom mount and the exhaust bellows. Then when the engine thermostat opens the warm water exits the block at the intake manifold and then flows out via the exhaust system. At the same time the impeller is pumping cool water in which will then get sucked into the block when the thermostat opens, it gets circulated to the block & heads and then exits via the exhaust system.
There should be no water leaking from the engine/exhaust system in the bilge if your engine is running on the water muffs.
When you put your boat in the water next time, try to start with a totally dry bilge, and back it in slowly and then look and listen to see if anything is leaking from the joint between the Y pipe and the transom.
These problems are common on I/O boats as they age and this is one reason why all my boats from now on will be outboards. I like Chevrolet small blocks but rather have them in hot rod than a boat. Small boats stick to outboards.

 

[fordplayin']

I gotcha now, that makes complete sense... I was struggling to understand why the water would not come in that lower bellow, sometimes I just need a thorough explanation and it hits ya!
So running water through with muffs should put water in bilge if its a seal or anything in the outdrive right? Eliminating the possibility of the depth finder? Or not necessarily? My husband and I can build a house, do hardscaping almost any project in that manor but engines can be beyond us at times. Thank you all so much for your help!

So it of course is not the depth finders transducer! We found were the water is leaking. We put water in the bilge and it came out the bottom of the transom/stern drive mounting, I'm taking a guess here that it is the gasket? Maybe? Is this true? Or could be anything inside there? I'm thinking its hopefully better it's coming out there? But as I type this I realize if its coming in there it can flow anywhere right? Ugh! Good news it only started yesterday, and it's not the transom itself, that's solid. Anyone have thoughts on what I just thought out loud? we appreciate those who have done the experience. We have owned this boat since 1999 and only ever had a few problem most inexpensive. Of course that was before a family when sinking money into the joyous hole in the water was easy!!! Now sweat equity is where it's at!

 

[fordplayin']

I only saw the last few responses after I sent my response to myself %-/ My apologies, rookie move! We cleaned out the bilge before we did this, and did not put much water in. We had the bow raised up. And bilged water out as soon as we saw it coming out.
We also did change all oils, plugs, had compression test, changed pully's, but no we did not change the bellows or impeller.

 

[fordplayin']

My gracious I goofed again.... We DID replace impeller and the kill switch lol

 

[Lou C]

Go back to the first parts diagram I posted, The transom seal is part #65 it’s a loop gasket that goes around the inner side of the transom mount, yes these can leak but often it’s a transom with the wood coring getting soft after all those years. Unfortunately this repair is VERY involved:
Pull outdrive (easy)
Pull engine (you have to know what you’re doing there could be quite dangerous if not done right)
THEN
unbolt the inner transom plate from the outer transom plate and assess what needs to be done.

THIS, is why I’ll never have another I/O boat!

 

[fordplayin']

Hmmm... Interesting! I guess that seal, part 65 goes the whole way around where it mounts? It couldn't be 67 could it? LOL eternal optimist here hoping it isn't the transom. It has been run only in fresh water. Taken good car of and literally has 430 hrs on it. I was winterized every year and we never left the plug in. I did not sit in water either.... haha Here's to hoping
Our first boat pre-newly wed days was an outboard, had it overhauled by a marina took it out first time and it blew up!!! Totally a fluke! My future father -in -law told us to go there and felt soooo bad he bought us a new one, went from a Force to a Johnson. Much faster so long ago. We got all our money back on that trade in. Good times! I will go investigate the transom!
Thank you very much for your time and knowledge!

 

[Lou C]

You’re welcome!
I’m in a salt water region and have an old boat used in salt water approx 20 years. While salt water corrodes all metals it’s less likely to rot wood. Fresh water actually causes more rot.
As legend has it the bacteria that causes wood rot can’t live in salt water...

 

[Scott Danforth]

So it of course is not the depth finders transducer! We found were the water is leaking. We put water in the bilge and it came out the bottom of the transom/stern drive mounting, .......it only started yesterday, and it's not the transom itself, that's solid.

how do you know the transom is solid? there is only one way to know and that involves test drilling from the inside of the bilge.

 

[Keyboardman]

Test drilling the transom will most likely show a rotted transom. This happens to be the case 9 out of 10 times with old sterndrive boats. Unless you want to invest a bunch of money and weeks and weeks of work on that boat, I'd dump it for parts. I too will never own another stern drive in my life.

 

[Lou C]

Same here. Outboards from now on. Life is too short at this point to be fiddling around with all the extra hassles and if you price modern I/O parts prices vs outboards they are just as bad; but with all the designed in headaches of I/Os.
Mechanics here in the salt pond refer to them as “double trouble”!

 

[hugh g]

Test drilling the transom will most likely show a rotted transom. This happens to be the case 9 out of 10 times with old sterndrive boats. Unless you want to invest a bunch of money and weeks and weeks of work on that boat, I'd dump it for parts. I too will never own another stern drive in my life.

Me either. Years ago when I bought my boat I needed a tow in because it overheated & being green behind the ears I knew squat why it overheated. At the dock an old timer who worked at the shop sauntered over, looked down at the drive & muttered "f****** sterndrives"! I should have learned right then & there.

 

[fordplayin']

I guess I do not KNOW the transom is solid. When I researched signs of problems the transom and granted you are all correct just like in a home you cant find mold until you open up a wall, everything I read said you should see minor flexing or some stress cracking. We don't have any cracks not not even around our ski mount or cleats which we used hard. We knocked on it and heard no change in sound, again not a clear answer but I to see the boat no one would guess it's age before its 8 years in the garage we took very good care of it considering we were out for fun in the sun every weekend. The upholstery is still good. I hear what your saying I just would have expected some sign of a problem structurally to show.
So if it ends up not being the 1 out of 10 that is lucky haha and we are only getting a minor amount of water in do we just use it for the summer and go for it? What would happen if we silicone the outside of it to reseal? Please hold back if that's the most ridiculous answer ever. But she really still is beautiful so before I junk it for parts? I thought I could throw it out there Again thank you all for your input and knowledge!!

 

[Keyboardman]

My last Sterndrive leaked from a rotten transom. I've had old wooden boats that leaked worse. I installed a back up bilge pump and went boating. Sold it to a guy who understood it leaked.

 

[PITBoat]

My last Sterndrive leaked from a rotten transom. I've had old wooden boats that leaked worse. I installed a back up bilge pump and went boating. Sold it to a guy who understood it leaked.

There you go.

Reminds me of the philosophy of a guy with a warbird collection (famous name - Weeks, or Pardue or somebody) that I read some years back -

If there was oil under one of those big radial engines that took X amount of rags to soak up, it was a seep, and we fly. If it took XX amount of rags, it was a leak and we didn't fly. Reality.

Lots of those guys wind up buying it in an airplane though, now that I think about it. Sorta takes the edge off of the point; but, Reality again, of that game.