Can I write off my boat or part of it?

russpang

Cadet
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
6
This is a long shot, if any of you are accounting-savvy maybe you can help.

I see cars and trucks with company decal wraps all over them and know there is some sort of tax write-off involved.

If I plaster my business website on the side of my boat, can I benefit? Aside from the free advertising of course.
 

shrew

Lieutenant
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
1,309
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

Yes, if you have a berth a head and a stove then it counts as a second home and the interest is tax deductable. IF you finance the boat using a Home Equity Loan or Line of Credit, then you can also deduct the interest from the loan. The taxes paid on registration are deductable. If you use pump gas which pays state highway taxes and you use it in an off highway vehicle you can deduct the portion of the taxes paid to the state for highway use. (This one you need to check as it depends on where you fill up).

If you use your boat for business entertainment, then you can potentially deduct portions of the cost. In all honesty, we're just a bunch of anonymous guys on the other end of an internet connection. I strongly suggest you obtain an licensed accountant or tax preparer to go over the legal requirements and ramifications.
 

oldjeep

Admiral
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
6,455
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

Maybe you could name it "Home office" and then deduct home office expenses ;)
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

If you have a commercial fishing license and a charter captain license and you sell fish or charter your boat part of the time you can write off that portion of the cost of the boat by depreciating it over time.

At least you could back in the mid-80s. I saved a ton of bux that way.

Talk to a CPA about it.
 

Home Cookin'

Fleet Admiral
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
9,715
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

If you try to call your pleasure boat a business boat, you better change your insurance from recreation to commercial. The second you claim a business expense you are naked. Same goes for collecting any compensation for taking people out.

I doubt you get anywhere with just a sign. Can you look a steely-eyed IRS agent in the face and say, "It's not a boat it's a billboard"? The people with signs on their cars don't get a "tax break" for the sign; they get it for the use.

So enjoy the free advertising and don't take it any further.
 

Bass_boy7

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
161
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

my step brother wrote off his mastercraft x-star under business entertainment, he owns 4 karate clubs in the area and uses the boat to "entertain his workers to create a close nit group or employees" try that one out, has worked for him, mind you he paid for his boat in full so after one year the government cant come after you for it anymore if its paid in full, but if you are making payments they can search into it every year you make payments at least thats how it works here in canada. hope that helps you a bit
 

hostage

Lieutenant
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
1,291
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

Hrmm....I have a 19ft cuddy with a head and a vbirth. If I put a stove in it does that mean I can write it off as a second house?
 

JoLin

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
5,146
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

Hrmm....I have a 19ft cuddy with a head and a vbirth. If I put a stove in it does that mean I can write it off as a second house?

You might need a refrigerator, too... but you can just stand it up in the cockpit :)
 

H20Rat

Vice Admiral
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
5,201
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

mind you he paid for his boat in full so after one year the government cant come after you for it anymore if its paid in full, but if you are making payments they can search into it every year you make payments at least thats how it works here in canada. hope that helps you a bit

In the states it is a bit different... Makes no diff if it is paid off or how it is paid, and they have up to 7 years to come back and audit you.
 

Brewman61

Ensign
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
996
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

Get the advice of a good tax attorney on this one. The IRS goes after home office deductions- and it's probably more true now then ever considering the revenue shortfalls they have to deal with.
There is a difference between deducting something and not getting questioned, and deducting something legitimate.
You won't like it much if they do an audit, and dis allow your deduction.
In extreme cases you could be charged with tax evasion. You would certainly get penalized with interest.
In this case the advice a professional would be worth the expense.
Unless you have a legitimate office you can't deduct it.
And you're only allowed to deduct the portion that actually used for business.
 

180Fisherman

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
276
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

Decals or no decals if your boat represents a legitimate business expense it is deductible. Being charged with the crime of tax evasion has nothing to do with the deductions you choose. It is only a crime to hide or not report taxable income . If you are audited and the deductions are disallowed you can almost always get the penalties waived and the interest charged is not exhorbitant. Don't you think Coors deducts the cost of the Silver Bullet?
 

180Fisherman

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
276
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

Sounds like an automatic tax audit to me. :(

I disagree. Keep in mind there is no need to label your boating expenses as "party boat" or "bikini barge" on your tax return. Fuel is fuel. Insurance is insurance. Reparis and maintenance are just that.
 

Lion hunter

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
1,529
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

I would think you'll need to tell us what kind of business your in. If you run a antique shop then maybe not so much. I have a friend that has his boat plastered with decals and writes it off, but he does pesticide spraying and does use it as a part of the business.

And the decals do nothing but advertise. They are not required for a deduction.
 

109jb

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
1,590
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

All I can say is that a co-worker tried it and got caught during an audit. He wound up re-paying the IRS including penalties. His boat was a bass boat and he entered some fishing tournaments and claimed that the fishing was a second source of income/loss. Bottom line is it didn't fly with the IRS.

I personally look at it this way. Did I buy the boat because I was going to use it for business related matters, or did I buy the boat because I like boats and wanted one to have fun?
 

shrew

Lieutenant
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
1,309
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

Hrmm....I have a 19ft cuddy with a head and a vbirth. If I put a stove in it does that mean I can write it off as a second house?

There are some additional considerations.

1) You can only deduct the interest from the loan.

2) The loan must be a secured loan.

3) You can only deduct a maximum of two homes (1 primary, and 1 secondary). If you already have a 2nd house, condo, boat that is already being deducted along with your primary house, then you cannot deduct the interest from a third.

4) The boat must meet the IRS requirements of a "Qualified Home:

Qualified Home: For you to take a home mortgage interest deduction, your debt must be secured by a qualified home. This means your main home or your second home. A home includes a house, condominium, cooperative, mobile home, house trailer, boat, or similar property that has sleeping, cooking, and toilet facilities.

See the following link for IRS rules under Publication 936:

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p936/ar02.html#en_US_publink1000229900

NOTE: Coking facilities must be legitimate. A Magma grill bolted to a handrail or rod holder IS NOT a 'cooking facility'. I had a brother-in-law who tossed a portable camp stove in his galley and called it a 'cooking facility'. This is a grey area I would not want to fight.

I have an enclosed head with a holding tank, a galley with a sink, fridge and stove, 2 permanent berths and a convertable berth. I've verified that I meet the legal IRS requirements. Note: I VERIFIED with my Accountant and Tax Preparer BEFORE I took the deduction on the interest of the loan. The IRS isn't going to buy "Screen name 'SHREW' on www.iboats.com told me it was ok".

Also, I am neither an accoutant nor a licensed tax preparer and this is only one mans opinion. I am not suggesting that anybody try to do this without first verifying by the proper resources. In other words, don't come crying to me if you get audited.
 

Lion hunter

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
1,529
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

To add to what I said earlier. My buddy writes off the portion of use on the boat. So if business use is 40% thats what he writes off as an expense.

I have done the same thing on a truck I used for a guide service. You had better keep pretty meticulous records because they will come looking.
 

180Fisherman

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
276
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

Disagree all you like but but he may as well put "PLEASE AUDIT ME" on top of the return.

I guess you must just fear an audit more than I do. No one is suggesting he cheat on his taxes but to forgo a legitamate deduction out of fear of an audit makes no sense to me.

Many Taxpayers fear an IRS audit. This topic will give you some tips on avoiding an IRS audit in the first place, or, if you're already involved in an IRS audit, surviving it with a minimum loss. Recently, 150,000 taxpayers avoided an IRS audit when the IRS postponed plans to conduct line-by-line tax audits as part of its Taxpayer Compliance Measurement Program (TCMP). However, the decision to postpone the TCMP tax audits in no way affects the IRS' standard tax auditing program. The IRS says most people are picked based on a computer analysis to determine which tax returns are most likely to be in error.
If you're audited by the IRS this year, you won't be alone. About 1.5 percent of all taxpayers are audited. As you can see, percentage wise, the IRS audits very few tax returns. Most tax returns singled out by the IRS for audit contain either tax deductions that appear to be too high in relationship to the person's income, or tax items that are erroneous, tax items that require proof or an explanation, or are on the IRS' list of hot tax issues. It is important that the IRS audits tax returns effectively, and the IRS puts a general fear in all taxpayers of being audited to encourage voluntary compliance with the income tax laws. The U.S. tax system depends on voluntary compliance. With today's computers there are now more ways than ever that the IRS can monitor your tax compliance.

Although the IRS audit targets change with the times, below you'll find some helpful hints as to which tax areas have commanded the IRS' audit attention in recent years. There are a host of strategies you can use to ensure you aren't selected for an IRS audit.


IRS Audit Statistics

Income for Tax Returns Tax Returns Filed Tax Returns Examined Percent Examined
Less Than $25,000 59,211,700
1,076,945
.81%

$25,000 to $50,000 27,263,000
259,794
.58%

$50,000 to $100,000 17,019,200
196,582
.62%

Greater Than 100,000 4,540,800
129,320
1.66%



The High-Risk Tax Audit Areas
The odds are low that your tax return will be picked for an IRS audit. The IRS does not have sufficient personnel and resources to examine every tax return, so the IRS selects those tax returns which, upon preliminary inspection, have high audit potential -- those that are most likely to result in a substantial tax deficiency. In recent years, less than 2% of all individual income tax returns have been audited. However, your chances for an IRS audit are higher depending upon certain types of income, certain amounts of income, your profession, the types of transactions, and the types of tax deductions claimed on your tax return.
High-Risk Tax Audit Areas - High Wages
Generally, as your income increases, so does your chance of an IRS audit. The odds of an IRS audit for someone in the $25,000 to $100,000 income bracket are less than one in 100. For those making more than $100,000, the odds increase to more than one and one half in 100.

Your chances of being audited by the IRS are greater under the following circumstances:

You have large amounts of itemized deductions on your tax return that exceed IRS targets.
You claim tax shelter investment losses on your tax return.
You have complex investment or business expenses on your tax return.
You own or work in a business which receives cash and/or tips in the ordinary course of business.
Your business expenses are large in relation to your income on your tax return.
You have rental expenses on your tax return.
A prior IRS audit resulted in a tax deficiency.
You have complex tax transactions without explanations on your tax return.
You are a shareholder or partner in an audited partnership or corporation.
You claim large cash contributions to charities in relation to your income on your tax return.
An informant has given information to the IRS.

You must report all your income, and you should take all your tax deductions, even if they increase your chances for an IRS audit. Don't be scared off by these factors. However, also realize that your chances for an IRS audit do increase with certain tax items, and prepare your tax return accurately and completely.

High-Risk Tax Audit Areas - Large Amounts of Itemized Tax Deductions
If your itemized tax deductions on your tax return exceed a target range as set by the IRS, the chances of being audited by the IRS increase. This does not mean that you should not take tax deductions on your tax return that you are entitled to, but you should realize that your chances for an audit increase if your tax deductions exceed the averages for your income level.

Another issue to consider is excessive itemized tax deductions on your tax return. The IRS doesn't describe the criteria by which it determines when tax deductions are excessive. Some tax experts calculate average tax deductions by income, and use these figures as a rough benchmark to determine if a taxpayer's tax deductions on his/her tax return exceed the norm.

Tax experts caution that these averages may not be useful, since tax deductions vary widely by state and region. And the medical tax deductions, for instance, would by definition be much higher than the average taxpayer would take because the IRS data reflect cases where taxpayers had medical deductions exceeding 7.5% of their taxable income.

You should take valid tax deductions on your tax return if they are amply backed up.

High-Risk Tax Audit Areas - High DIF
When your tax return is filed, IRS computers compare it against the national Discriminate Information Function (DIF) system average. The IRS calculates the DIF score by using a closely-guarded formula. Tax returns with the highest DIF scores are scrutinized by experienced IRS examining officers who determine which tax returns provide the best chance for collecting additional taxes, interest, and tax penalties.

High-Risk Tax Audit Areas - Unreported Taxable Income
Unreported taxable income is a common red flag. The IRS discovers unreported taxable income when its computers match the taxable income you reported on your tax return with information gathered from banks and others. For example, if you failed to report on your tax return the interest earned on your bank savings account, the IRS typically will catch you when it matches the bank's interest payment records, called 1099 forms, against your tax return.

One good way to make sure you don't miss unreported taxable income is to review last year's tax return to make sure you have 1099's, etc. from mutual funds, banks and other sources.

The IRS electronically matches the figures you report for dividends, interest, securities transactions and other taxable income with tax information supplied by banks, brokerage firms, and other payers. To avoid problems, it's best to report your dividend and interest income exactly as it appears on your 1099 forms and make adjustments on the tax return if the numbers are incorrect. If your brokerage account files a 1099 for all your dividends, don't list separate amounts on your tax return. By the same token, if you receive separate 1099s, don't report your taxable earnings in one lump sum.

High-Risk Tax Audit Areas - Self Employment
Because the IRS believes most under-reporting of taxable income and abuse of tax deductions occurs among those who are self employed, these individuals are audited by the IRS far more frequently than employees collecting a salary. The same holds true for taxicab drivers, waiters and waitresses, and others who traditionally receive payment in cash. Also, the IRS will sometimes conduct tests of certain individuals to determine if a taxpayer's reported taxable income can support his or her lifestyle.

The IRS publishes manuals to familiarize its auditors with about 100 different businesses, particularly ones that have a high number of self employed individuals. These guides, which are available to the general public, can help you pinpoint what auditors are looking for and how best to protect yourself. To learn if a guide is available for your business click here:
Audit Guides or call the IRS Freedom of Information Act Reading Room at (202) 622-5164, or write Box 795, Ben Franklin Station, Washington, DC 20044.

High-Risk Tax Audit Areas - Home Office Tax Deductions
Home office tax deductions have been targeted by the IRS. Since the tax rules for deducting home office expenses on your tax return are complicated, you should consult a tax expert, such as a CPA, to determine whether you qualify to deduct home office expenses on your tax return.

A good example is the office in the home. By claiming such an item on your tax return, you increase your chances for an IRS audit. However, if you're clearly entitled to claim the office in the home on your tax return under the tax rules, then you should do it if it's substantial enough to make a tax difference. However, if the tax savings are minimal, then it may be wise not to claim the tax deduction at all.

High-Risk Tax Audit Areas - Unreported alimony
Over the years, the IRS has found that not all taxpayers report alimony receipts as taxable income. As a result, the IRS now matches tax deductions for alimony payments by one former spouse with the taxable alimony income reported by the other.

High-Risk Tax Audit Areas - Automobile Logs
One of the biggest and most commonly audited items by the IRS for individuals in their own business, and employees of companies who use their car in business, is the tax deduction for business transportation. It is important that you keep good records of all tax deductible automobile expenses and a mileage log showing business miles driven.

Also, try to keep a daily log of business mileage. Ideally, such log would show the date, beginning and ending odometer readings, the location, the business purpose, and the client. Such detail is hard for today's business person to keep, but it's important to have something in writing in case you're audited. At a minimum, make sure you write down the automobile's odometer reading at the beginning and the end of the tax year and have a daily record that you could go back to and use to reconstruct a claimed business mileage tax deduction on your tax return.

Self-defense pays off
You should take every tax deduction you're entitled to on your tax return, and you should not be frightened by the potential of an IRS tax audit. However, you must exercise common sense and weigh the risk you are taking by claiming or using certain tax deductions on your tax return with the reward that you receive in terms of tax savings.

Don't be frightened by the chance for an IRS tax audit since it is slight, but also don't randomly increase your chances for an IRS tax audit with items that have minimal tax benefit to you. Use your own judgment and common sense along with the advice of your tax professionals.

CPAs say the best way to avoid a tax audit is to file a complete and accurate tax return. Double check your math, and make sure you have used the correct IRS tax forms and IRS tax schedules. And if you think the IRS may question a large tax deduction or tax credit, attach an explanation to your tax return when you file it.
 

marcortez

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
230
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

This is a long shot, if any of you are accounting-savvy maybe you can help.

I see cars and trucks with company decal wraps all over them and know there is some sort of tax write-off involved.

If I plaster my business website on the side of my boat, can I benefit? Aside from the free advertising of course.

Just saying:.....looks to me your on the brink of being a user and abuser of the tax laws, from the information supplied.
Scofflaw comes to mind, as well as a tax cheat.

Say it ain't so!!!
 

security6

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
191
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

Just saying:.....looks to me your on the brink of being a user and abuser of the tax laws, from the information supplied.
Scofflaw comes to mind, as well as a tax cheat.

Say it ain't so!!!

Those are some harsh words for someone who asked a question. In my opinion, your comment is uncalled for. The original poster has not claimed such a deduction, he is just asking about what may be needed to claim such a deduction. I think you should apologize and retract your statement.
 

security6

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
191
Re: Can I write off my boat or part of it?

All I can say is that a co-worker tried it and got caught during an audit. He wound up re-paying the IRS including penalties. His boat was a bass boat and he entered some fishing tournaments and claimed that the fishing was a second source of income/loss. Bottom line is it didn't fly with the IRS.

I personally look at it this way. Did I buy the boat because I was going to use it for business related matters, or did I buy the boat because I like boats and wanted one to have fun?

This is a little different from what the original poster was asking about.

Your scenario: Guy wants to make his hobby a business so he can claim the losses from his "business". I agree with you, this is a bad idea. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy never claimed a profit from the "business", but only had losses (seems likely given how small tournament prizes are in relation to the cost of a boat). The IRS is generally suspicious of businesses that never make a profit.

OP's scenario (my understanding of it anyway): Guy has a non-boat related business, and wants to know if he can use boat to help his business so he can have some deductions on his taxes.
 
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