Can I Tow My Boat with this???

[Miroash]

Re: Can I Tow My Boat with this???

Keep an eye on your temp gauge

FYI, my first transmission failed due to overheating (I was going 70mph on open highway NOT towing anything and had never towed anything prior to that) and the transmission just died from overheating. The temp gauge read normal. I was told by the dealer that the temp gauge will not tell you anything about your transmission temp, only the engine temp. which is why they replaced the cooler when they did the transmission. I have since added a transmission temp gauge since I am now towing with the van.

 

[jkust]

Re: Can I Tow My Boat with this???

I think these are some of my favorite threads. Here is my experience with my high mile 2000 Olds Silhouette minivan for what it is worth. It has a much weaker 3.4 liter engine, FWD and 3500 lb tow package with the best option being auto load leveling rear suspension. For one season (last year) I towed My 2900 lb dry weight 18 foot boat plus heavy duty roller trailer, 33 gallons of gas in the boat plus gear and fully loaded van with 4 people. It towed down the road at highway speeds better than my new truck based suv due to the long wheelbase. The steapest ramp in the world was completely effortless as long as it was dry. Any wetness and the wheels would spin even with brand new tires. If when you retrieved the boat, the trailer was not exactly in line with the van the wheels would spin even on the most level ramp. When I would take a hard right turn from a dead stop the wheels would spin. Now fast forward to this season and towing with my new suv with 5.3liter v8, locking rear differential, AWD, 6500 tow capacity and I realize how what I thought was a good tow rig is not. Other than the slight difference in the wheel base I mentioned, a truck to me is the way to go. I see why people disuade minivans from towing heavy loads on these boards. Sure it can do it but there are so many more factors with safety and stress level being the game changer for me. Now the wettest and steapest, worst designed ramp is not a concern. Life got a lot easier.

 

[Miroash]

Re: Can I Tow My Boat with this???

I think these are some of my favorite threads. Here is my experience with my high mile 2000 Olds Silhouette minivan for what it is worth. It has a much weaker 3.4 liter engine, FWD and 3500 lb tow package with the best option being auto load leveling rear suspension. For one season (last year) I towed My 2900 lb dry weight 18 foot boat plus heavy duty roller trailer, 33 gallons of gas in the boat plus gear and fully loaded van with 4 people. It towed down the road at highway speeds better than my new truck based suv due to the long wheelbase. The steapest ramp in the world was completely effortless as long as it was dry. Any wetness and the wheels would spin even with brand new tires. If when you retrieved the boat, the trailer was not exactly in line with the van the wheels would spin even on the most level ramp. When I would take a hard right turn from a dead stop the wheels would spin. Now fast forward to this season and towing with my new suv with 5.3liter v8, locking rear differential, AWD, 6500 tow capacity and I realize how what I thought was a good tow rig is not. Other than the slight difference in the wheel base I mentioned, a truck to me is the way to go. I see why people disuade minivans from towing heavy loads on these boards. Sure it can do it but there are so many more factors with safety and stress level being the game changer for me. Now the wettest and steapest, worst designed ramp is not a concern. Life got a lot easier.

Thanks for your input. I too am planning to get a truck in the near future, but for now will be using the van when I need to transport the boat. For the most part the boat is on a davit behind my home and I can just lower it into the ICW and go most anywhere, but occasionaly we like to trailer it to a different area rather than chance the boat breaking down and have a long tow back. Thanks again.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Can I Tow My Boat with this???

We have a 07 Toyota Sienna w/AWD and it makes a great tow vehicle without having to buy a truck just for the sake of having a truck. We drive it on the beach, it tows up steep slippery ramps with no problem at all. And in the off season, we have a 7 passenger seating and a vehicle that goes through the snow better than pickups due to weight distribution.

We decided to go with AWD in a mini-van over FWD because:

1) Needed the extra traction to pull up wet launch ramps.

2) FWD mini vans suck in the snow, especially in hilly terrain.

Just something to think about.

 

[Miroash]

Re: Can I Tow My Boat with this???

We have a 07 Toyota Sienna w/AWD and it makes a great tow vehicle without having to buy a truck just for the sake of having a truck. We drive it on the beach, it tows up steep slippery ramps with no problem at all. And in the off season, we have a 7 passenger seating and a vehicle that goes through the snow better than pickups due to weight distribution.

We decided to go with AWD in a mini-van over FWD because:

1) Needed the extra traction to pull up wet launch ramps.

2) FWD mini vans suck in the snow, especially in hilly terrain.

Just something to think about.

Fortunatley, I live in South Florida so I seldom see snow. and there really isnt an off season for boating. Thanks

 

[Pontuned]

Re: Can I Tow My Boat with this???

FYI, my first transmission failed due to overheating (I was going 70mph on open highway NOT towing anything and had never towed anything prior to that) and the transmission just died from overheating. The temp gauge read normal. I was told by the dealer that the temp gauge will not tell you anything about your transmission temp, only the engine temp. which is why they replaced the cooler when they did the transmission. I have since added a transmission temp gauge since I am now towing with the van.

FWIW, the trans probably died due to the fact that the torque converter clutch failed......very common in a 41TE trans. The only other reason they typically die is planetary failure.

As to the "expert" that said that Dexron plus additive does not work...........well he is wrong. I have been a GM of 2 AAMCO's for 10 years and the Lube Gard additives do what they are designed to do. I have many extended and lifetime warranties out there that I used additives to and I feel 100% that if they fail that will not be the reason.

That being said, the inherent flaw of the Chrysler 41TE (aka 604) is the weak geartrain. Towing a boat of any substantial weight will be a great risk to the life of this transmission. The gearing and the hub design are simply too weak to hold up to additional load for the long haul. A cooler is nice but cool fluid doesn't make the geartrain any stronger.

GL with your boat and your van.

 

[NYBo]

Re: Can I Tow My Boat with this???

FWIW, the trans probably died due to the fact that the torque converter clutch failed......very common in a 41TE trans. The only other reason they typically die is planetary failure.

As to the "expert" that said that Dexron plus additive does not work...........well he is wrong. I have been a GM of 2 AAMCO's for 10 years and the Lube Gard additives do what they are designed to do. I have many extended and lifetime warranties out there that I used additives to and I feel 100% that if they fail that will not be the reason.

Not to get into a peeing match, don't take my word for it. Ask the Mopar guys over at Allpar.com who know those transaxles inside and out. The biggest cause of failure is the use of fluids that have different friction characteristics from what Chrysler specified and has programmed the PCM for. This causes clutch slippage, overheating, and eventually, failure. My trusted non-franchise transmission shop concurs, BTW, so it's not just a bunch of guys on the Internet saying this. And this goes for other brands. Use anything other than Honda-approved fluid in an Odyssey at your peril.

My own experience with AAMCO rebuilds is limited to one: A friend had the transaxle go into what seemed to be permanent "limp home" mode about 25K miles after a rebuild. He was disgusted with the van and gave it to me for free. He didn't even want to take it back to AAMCO. All I did to it was drain about four quarts of fluid from the pan and replace it with ATF+3 (this was before ATF+4 came out). The transaxle immediately started working properly. So I have little faith in Dexron + additives. YMMV

By 2002, the running changes that Chrysler made to the hard parts made for a reasonably reliable transaxle, but still not made for heavy towing. Install that auxiliary cooler!

 

[Pontuned]

Re: Can I Tow My Boat with this???

Not to get into a peeing match, don't take my word for it. Ask the Mopar guys over at Allpar.com who know those transaxles inside and out. The biggest cause of failure is the use of fluids that have different friction characteristics from what Chrysler specified and has programmed the PCM for. This causes clutch slippage, overheating, and eventually, failure. My trusted non-franchise transmission shop concurs, BTW, so it's not just a bunch of guys on the Internet saying this. And this goes for other brands. Use anything other than Honda-approved fluid in an Odyssey at your peril.

My own experience with AAMCO rebuilds is limited to one: A friend had the transaxle go into what seemed to be permanent "limp home" mode about 25K miles after a rebuild. He was disgusted with the van and gave it to me for free. He didn't even want to take it back to AAMCO. All I did to it was drain about four quarts of fluid from the pan and replace it with ATF+3 (this was before ATF+4 came out). The transaxle immediately started working properly. So I have little faith in Dexron + additives. YMMV

By 2002, the running changes that Chrysler made to the hard parts made for a reasonably reliable transaxle, but still not made for heavy towing. Install that auxiliary cooler!

Fluid type will not send a 41TE to limp mode.......no matter what someone told you. The most common reasons for "limp" mode is a faulty speed sensor or a transmission over temperature condition, the latter of which is not going to be caused by fluid type either. I am not trying to argue with you, I just don't like it when someone spreads falsehoods with very little to base their opinion on. It would be like me saying "I hate Evinrudes" because my buddy had a problem with one once. I have been building transmissions for the last decade and i am very informed in the ins and outs of all models, not just Chrysler units. You are correct on one thing though....coolers are a good idea.

There was no major change to the drivetrain in the 604 style trans in 2002, with the exception of the differential pin keeper upgrade around that time. I have built these units up to a 2007 (the latest design) and that model is the only noticeable difference in the design. In the 2007 and up 41TE, the valve assembly incorporates a governor pressure solenoid in addition to the shift solenoid body. This "new design" has caused many premature failures of the torque converter on the late models as well.

I am not saying that this is a bad vehicle, if I owned a minivan it would be a Chrysler. I am just saying that they are not structurally "up to the task" of hauling a decent sized boat. The pins in the planetary gears are weak as is the differential and the 2-4 and underdrive hubs. It may work for a while but it is not a good idea.

I may not know a lot about boats.......but I assure you I probably know more about transmissions than anyone on this board.

Happy boating...........

 

[NYBo]

Re: Can I Tow My Boat with this???

Your earlier post only indicated that you were a GM, not an experienced transmission rebuilder. Thanks for the clarification; you certainly seem to know a lot about these units. As you undoubtedly know, managers often know nothing about the product. Dealership service managers are frequently in this class, and I'm sure you know that AAMCO has a terrible reputation among motorheads. But can you answer me one thing: LubeGuard claims to match the friction characteristics specified by a large number of manufacturers. How can this possibly be? Forgive my skepticism, but I'm very leery about such claims when it involves something as expensive as a transaxle. I also wouldn't want to void my warranty (moot point with my current vehicle, but would be a consideration in the future).

And I must say that changing only 4 quarts of fluid in my one van did in fact take it out of "limp home" mode immediately. If it wasn't the fluid itself, what could account for this? (I truly would like to know. I don't like operating under misconceptions, and I especially don't like spreading them, but I can't come up with any other explanation. I never touched the solenoid pack, speed sensors, or their wiring, nor did I even drop the pan -I siphoned the fluid out of the fill tube- so I'm at a loss.)

(Edited for clarity once the first cup of coffee kicked in.:redface

 

[Pontuned]

Re: Can I Tow My Boat with this???

Your earlier post only indicated that you were a GM, not an experienced transmission rebuilder. Thanks for the clarification; you certainly seem to know a lot about these units. As you undoubtedly know, managers often know nothing about the product. Dealership service managers are frequently in this class, and I'm sure you know that AAMCO has a terrible reputation among motorheads. But can you answer me one thing: LubeGuard claims to match the friction characteristics specified by a large number of manufacturers. How can this possibly be? Forgive my skepticism, but I'm very leery about such claims when it involves something as expensive as a transaxle. I also wouldn't want to void my warranty (moot point with my current vehicle, but would be a consideration in the future).

And I must say that changing only 4 quarts of fluid in my one van did in fact take it out of "limp home" mode immediately. If it wasn't the fluid itself, what could account for this? (I truly would like to know. I don't like operating under misconceptions, and I especially don't like spreading them, but I can't come up with any other explanation. I never touched the solenoid pack, speed sensors, or their wiring, nor did I even drop the pan -I siphoned the fluid out of the fill tube- so I'm at a loss.)

(Edited for clarity once the first cup of coffee kicked in.:redface

You cycled the key.

There is absolutely nothing that changing fluid can do to take it out of failsafe. The only way to take it out of failsafe is to (a) cycle the key to clear a soft code such as a trans over temp or a speed sensor code (b) disconnect the battery, typically the neg terminal (c) clear the code with a code scanner/code clearing device.

The Lube Gard transmission additive product line is manufactured to duplicate the characteristics of the modifiers that are found in Dexron III based lubricants. Mercon, Mercon V, ATF-4.....all are Dexron III based lubricants enhanced with friction modifiers specific to the manufacturer. Some units need modifiers due to their use of high energy clutch material or directional clutches. The Lube Gard Platinum additive is a great product that enhances Dexron III to spec for Mercon blends, Chrysler ATF-4, and also some foreign fluids as well. I use it in my AWD V8 Explorer, which is a Mercon V application and also is the vehicle I use to tow my pontoon. I have faith in their products because I have seen how they work over the last 10 years.

BTW- I am not a builder, I am a GM, but I am very hands on and work closely with my builders. I am not a salesman, yes I am aware that typically you find that type as a center manager in all types of auto repair. I am one of the guys who actually operate the business not just sell jobs.



Sorry to the OP for hijacking his thread. I hope I have added more than I have detracted.

 

[NYBo]

Re: Can I Tow My Boat with this???

You cycled the key.

That can't be it. The key has been cycled many times, both cold and hot starts by my friend and by me before I changed the fluid. Perhaps I bumped the connection to the solenoid pack without realizing it or something.

I guess I may never know for sure...

BTW, I heard this nasty rumor that this is actually a boating forum of some sort, not an automotive forum!