California Clemency

18rabbit

Captain
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: California Clemency

One of the problems with executing peopling is (for me) it requires a legal system with reasonable integrity intact. We don’t have that in the United States; our judicial system is one of the most corrupted on the planet.<br /><br />In the last couple of years Calif has released 4 prisoners that were wrongfully convicted. They served from 12 to 20+ years before their convictions were tossed out. In each of the four cases the DA’s office withheld evidence that proved beyond doubt the person they were bring to trial was innocent. So far, none of the people involved at any of the DA’s offices has been charged, reprimanded, or in any way made to pay for what they did.<br /><br />Locally, we now have a fellow on death row, Scott Peterson. He’s to be executed for killing his wife and unborn child. I wouldn’t have a problem with that if there was any evidence that showed Peterson did that. Such evidence wasn’t presented at his trial. He is to be executed because a jury “thinks” he committed the crimes, not because anyone “knows” he did it. The judge erred by ever allowing the jury to deliberate. After the prosecution presented their case the judge should have dismissed the charges for lack of evidence. That is the judge’s responsibility, that’s why he has that authority. He sits between popular public opinion and unbiased justice. Well, he’s supposed to, but didn’t.<br /><br />A couple years ago Illinois halted all of their death penalties because it was discovered DNA evidence was showing some convictions were in err.<br /><br />Basically, unless someone steps up to the plate and says “yeah, I did it” and there is undisputed evidence that person actually did commit a capital crime, I’m no longer comfortable with implementing any death sentence. And I am NOT opposed to the death penalty.<br /><br />Was it Patrick Henry that said “better 1000 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man hang.” ?!?
 

18rabbit

Captain
Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: California Clemency

Originally posted by MudIsFun:<br /> ... Change this to a life w/o possibility of parole case. $500K trial and no special appointed attorneys. After appeals (state level only, hard to prove the need for federal involvement) are exhausted the covict serves his time. He or she never gets out but costs the tax payers several million less even if he/she lives to be 80.
If you want to save money you will like the way it is done in Italy; no death penalty, anyone in prison at the age of 70-years can petition for (and is usually granted) release on the grounds of old age. Think of all the money Italy is saving by not having to incarcerate of provide heath care for an old man that isn’t likely to commit another crime anyway.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: California Clemency

Ya know guys. Somethings should be about money and some things should not . . .<br /><br />This should not.<br /><br />
Originally posted by 18rabbit:<br /> our judicial system is one of the most corrupted on the planet
I vigorously dispute that, too bad for me, because it cannot be proven or disproven.<br /><br />I understand about overzealous prosecutors and all of that, they simply must be dealt with.<br /><br />Edit: In fact, dealt with, Death Penalty or not
 

Bob in Calif.

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 4, 2002
Messages
653
Re: California Clemency

Hey TOOKIE, How do you want it, "Regular or Extra Crispy?" :D <br /><br />...Bob in Calif... "Better Right, Than Not"
 

NOSLEEP

Commander
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
2,442
Re: California Clemency

Good grief PW, since when did death become primitive<br />and barbaric.<br />Many liberal processes are naive and self serving. If you don't deal with it. Its not your<br />problem.
 

waterone1@aol.com

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
1,235
Re: California Clemency

A death sentance should not take 12 or 20 years to do.....fry them up in 1 to 2 years. Get it over with, I am tired of paying for trash.
 

RetNav

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Messages
758
Re: California Clemency

Take a look at this site: www.msnbc.com/id/10384331/ and here is a quote from that article: <br />Clark became the 164th person in the nation and the fifth in Georgia to be freed through post-conviction DNA testing, according to Potkin. <br />.<br />This finding of innocence came after serving 25 years for a crime he didn't commit, read the article.<br />.<br />I can agree with execution only in cases where there is zero doubt about guilt. <br /><br />In an adversarial system the worth of a lawyer depends upon their win/loss ratio and for me that leaves to much room for manipulation of the facts in order to pad that ratio.
 

PW2

Commander
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
2,719
Re: California Clemency

Most of the arguments supporting the death penalty, excluding the economic ones, seem to focus on some sort of revenge motive.<br /><br />I think it is wrong.<br /><br />Lock them up, throw away the key...No chance of parole...I have no problem with that.<br /><br />I frankly think it is cruel to put the victim's families thru 20 years of attention and appeals that come from trying to put someone to death, and after all is said and done and they are finally put to death, the supposed relief they feel is virtually always hollow and without substance.
 

ehenry

Commander
Joined
Jan 6, 2002
Messages
2,393
Re: California Clemency

Mississippi is getting ready to but to death the oldest person on death row. He's 77 years old, been on death row for over 25 years. Gov. Barbour has refused clemency. <br /><br />If any of yall remember, Earnest Lee Hargon confessed to the killing of an entire family. One member was only 4 years old. He was convicted and sentenced to death. All this happened last week...only took 2 days for the trial. It took 1.5 hours for the jury to convict him on all charges and another 2 hours the next day for them to sentence him to death. NOW....how long you think he'll sit on death row before the sentence is carried out???
 

PW2

Commander
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
2,719
Re: California Clemency

On Grounds that the state does not have the right to end someone's life.<br /><br />I don't really care that much, one way or another, frankly. Other than the usual concerns about an innocent being convicted, of course.<br /><br />I could be convinced if it achieved some useful purpose somehow. I don't think it is a deterrent, I don't think revenge is a proper motive, and I don't think it possible to be fair and equitable in choosing who lives and who dies.
 
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