Britain and Europe

[62_Kiwi]

Speaking as someone of British ancestry, I have to say I'm very saddened by the prospect of Britain (fully) joining the European Union. For the life of me, I don't understand what Britain has in common with the major European countries like Germany and France. I think it's a mistake of gigantic proportions.<br /><br />You only have to open any major newspaper or news website to see the massive differences in political direction - not to mention the cultural and historical differences.<br /><br />Britain is a much closer cultural fit with it's traditional family of countries.... Canada, Australia, NZ - plus the USA for that matter. Sure Europe is closer geographically, but in this day and age of the world getting smaller due to technology and ease of travel - that's no longer as relevant. What's more relevant is cultural, social and political fit - not geography.<br /><br />Just my 2 cents...

 

[gonfishn]

Re: Britain and Europe

I am learning to stay out of politcal issues because I come off in the wrong way. Well said though and I don't think it could be said much better......

 

[NOSLEEP]

Re: Britain and Europe

Its not hard to see why you might<br />feel that way 62.

 

[flashback]

Re: Britain and Europe

Lets face it KIWI the Brits and the French have given us some of the most spectacular battles and wars in history. shoot, those two have been slapping each other around forever. I don't think they will ever get along. kinda like Christians and Muslims, oil and water, etc and etc......we live in some strange times.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Britain and Europe

Sounds like it might be a good topic for a DEBATE

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: Britain and Europe

Spinner - LOL, we'll just have to wait for someone with the opposite point of view. I wonder what Plywoody thinks about this topic ? <br /><br />(Thanks for your comments everyone)

 

[Beaux]

Re: Britain and Europe

LOL! My fingertips are still sore from the last heated debate.... I almost burned myself out on Iboats. <br />I have been doing a lot of reading verses posting lately and enjoy that as much or more than posting. <br />BTW- SBN, you must be really slow at work lately, you are spending as many hours as JB on here lately! I am sure everyone including me enjoys your attempts to stir debate.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Britain and Europe

Beaux, thats the good thing about being the boss.<br />A lot of free time and besides all I have to do is sit here anyway so why not enjoy it.

 

[Beaux]

Re: Britain and Europe

Good for you Spinner! I wish I didnt have to help my assistants make money for me. You have it made.

 

[Jack Shellac]

Re: Britain and Europe

Couldn't agree more, 62-Kiwi. Maybe we ought to form an "English Speaking Union", with the way things are going now.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Britain and Europe

Yea beaux, the customers fax me something and I just e-mail one of the drivers and they pick it up.<br />Works real good and all from my home. No overhead for an office or any of that stuff.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Britain and Europe

good IDEA , JACK...<br /><br />but WHO'S english we gonna speak..???

 

[gonfishn]

Re: Britain and Europe

Same here Spinner. Iboats is Set up here at Office so I can keep tabs on whats going on(might miss some good stuff). My Secretary has to kick me off here at times and is always saying that she wished she had my job. No one said you had to bust your butt to make money. Been there and done that.

 

[Jack Shellac]

Re: Britain and Europe

Crab Bait: Ours, of course. We had an English technician in installing some new German equipment [weird, huh], and he was always giving us a hard time about how we talked. When the job was over, his bosses were in trying to get us to sign a service contract with them. One of the big selling points was that all their service people spoke English. Since "Hardtime Guy" was in the room, I couldn't resist asking if that was true, then why didn't we get one? Made up for everything, just seeing his face.

 

[plywoody]

Re: Britain and Europe

It is of course nice to be considered the resident contrarian.<br /><br />Re the British joining the EU, I suppose it depends on what exactly the goals are, and what framework you are discussing. If it is purely Economic, to me it makes lots of sense for them to join. Europe as a whole, including Great Britain, forms at least as large an economic force in the world as the US, and perhaps larger. There is of course strength in power, and more power is virtually always a benefit in world trade.<br /><br />The US continues to show consistent protectionist policies regarding world trade, and really understands only the excercise of power. The recent steel tariffs against Europe are only the latest example. <br />Even Canada, the greatest trading partner of all with the US, might well benefit with aligning themselves with the EU as well. The US consistently advocates for free trade when it benefits US business directly, but slaps a restrictive tariffs against Canada on things like software lumber, grain, potatoes, and other products of Canada in the face of any complaint by big US businesses. (To the detrement of US consumers, BTW)<br /><br />It will be interesting to see what the US does when the WTO rules on the legality of the lumber tariff sometime this spring. The US has, IMO, a very weak case and obviously protectionist stance. If the ruling goes against the US, as it likely will, it will be interesting to see what this administration does in response to the big special interest groups, with big campaign contributions at stake.<br /><br />If it is a strategic alliance for protection, then it is a different issue, of course. From a national defense point of view, Great Britain is the defensive power of the EU, and stands little to gain, and much to lose, by joinging forces with the EU.

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: Britain and Europe

Plywoody - you made some good points there. <br /><br />Indeed, in terms of trade, New Zealand and Australia have been very frustrated by the USA's protectionist policies towards the free trade of lamb, beef and dairy products. In my opinion no country is perfect (even my beloved NZ) and one imperfection of the USA is that it argues for free trade on one hand while running very protectionist policies on the other hand. (Hope I'm not causing a diplomatic incident - most people here know I'm supportive of the USA). In terms of being a truely free-trading country, you'd be hard pressed to find a better example than NZ.<br /><br />On the subject of the different flavours of the English language.... <br /><br />About 15 years ago, I was on a training course in Eindhoven, Holland (with Philips Lighting) and was in a large group of people of all different nationalities. We of course were speaking in English (thankfully). The Dutch tutors sometimes struggled with understanding all the different accents - and I worked out early on that if you wanted to be understood easily by someone who has a different way of speaking - you should slow down your speech and copy their accent as much as you can. This worked well for me and I seemed to have no trouble being understood.<br /><br />There was one guy on the course from London who spoke with a very propper Queen's English (BBC style). He clearly considered himself to be the authority figure when it came to the English language..... The funny thing was, that towards the end of the course, one of the tutors stopped and said, that of all the different accents and ways of speaking English "the Kiwi" (me) was the easiest to understand and why couldn't all the others talk like "the Kiwi". I had to chuckle as the Englishman launched into a tirade about my "colonial b@astardization of the Queen's english". Not a happy chappy about that!

 

[dkondelik]

Re: Britain and Europe

Uh Ohhhh! Here comes a diplomatic BOMB!<br />FREE TRADE!<br />Yup, let's all kick the USA around some more.<br />Working in the automotive electronics manufacturing environment, I have encountered "THIS" free trade with the EU.<br />Of the many components and subassemblies my company manufactures, we USE to sell a series of transformers to the beloved French. All of a sudden, one day, all orders are canceled and stock in transit is returned. Seems the EU (or at least the French) have an interesting interpretation of "FREE TRADE". I this case, the ruling was interpreted to mean that our product could only be imported into France if another EU manufacturer can NOT make the thing. Turns out, another EU manufacturer (maybe Siemens, maybe Philips, don't know for sure) decided hat they wanted to make it,……AT TWICE THE COST!. No matter, the benevolent EU in their infinite wisdom, forced our customer to cancel with us and purchase the local made product. Free Trade? OK if you say so, then it must be the US's fault.<br /><br />I'm absolutely positive that there are countless thousands of other examples but as long as we can blame it on the US why should we be open and honest about it.<br /><br />English Speaking Union/Alliance? I like it. Where do I sign up.<br /><br />Was it yesterday or the day before? I'm not sure. Tom Delay was in an argument with some French diplomat. Delay realized that they were at an impasse in the discussion. In a change of tact, Delay asked the frog, "Excuse me Sir, do you speak German?" The Frenchmen replied "No sir, I do not".<br /><br />Please hang on to Mr. Delays' reply. As Mr. Tom Delay turned to walk away, his only additional comment was <br />"Your Welcome".<br /><br />GOD BLESS AMERICA<br />(and he has)

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: Britain and Europe

Klondike7 - I would not be one to hold up the EU as a good example on free trade. We too have our severe challenges when it comes to trade with them.<br /><br />The example of your cancelled order is typical of the type of trade I don't like. That's "unfree trade" on the part of the French and only results in harbouring inefficient industries. Overall, they seem to like doing this.<br /><br />In the 1980's, at the cost of much domestic pain, NZ purged itself of almost all tarrifs and trade barriers and we switched to the free trade model. Many local businesses went under in the process, but at the end of the day, we ended up with the surviving businesses that were internationally competitive. Where we couldn't compete on the world stage - market forces ensured that we pulled out. Our frustration now after doing this, is that so few other countries practice true free trade. Others can compete in our (small) domestic market but so often we are not allowed to compete in theirs...<br /><br />I hope nobody interprets my comments as kicking the USA, that's not my intention.

 

[dkondelik]

Re: Britain and Europe

Sorry if I ruffled a feather Kiwi (pun,,, perhaps intended).<br /><br />I may have over-reacted. Seems that most of the complaints about America are coming from, I'm emabarrased to say, Americans. I've become hyper sensative to the American-Hating-Americans and cannot for the life of me, understand why they don't leave for a nicer place such as Mother Russia or mabe even Iraq.<br /><br />We are of common Brit kin-ship and by gosh, the older I get, the more it becomes appearent, that blood indeed, IS thicker then water.<br /><br />And yup! guess I'm a bit of a red neck, but I'm proud to stand among the English speaking nations,including Alabama <br /><br />That said, As to your original post in this thread, it looks like the EU is strangling itself with regulations and entitlements. Looking at the economic status of Germany alone (the strngest economy in the EU), they are in deep fiscal problems. 6 weeks vacationa and guaranteed 1 year severence, combined with a short work week. It is easy to understand why employers are reluctant to add to their staff's. As well, with the built in overhead of regs and benfits, it becomes obvious why the EU wants an EU. They cannot possibly compete on the world market.<br /><br />They may already be in too deep to dig out. The nations of Europe MUST cut there overhead expences if they ever hope to be truely competetive. <br /><br />If they don't??? Well I guesss the nations of the EU will be stuck trading only within the EU. <br /><br />I'm not so sure that England really wants that.<br /><br />Wadda-U think? (pardon the English)

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: Britain and Europe

I agree with the points in your latest post Klondike7 - and no problem, my feathers aren't ruffled