Bravo 3 hard shifting

[treetopclimber]

Hello All...I have a 99' B3 that shifts hard into forward. Last year during fitting out, found that it would not shift into forward at all. Couldn't figure it out and took it in for repair. Mechanic found rear cover full of water from bad seal. Replaced shift kit and lubed. Shifts into forward but hard. Mechanic says cables are fine. He also informed me of the gear set upgrade. It never shifted "smoothly" to begin with, forward or reverse. I decided to go with it as is to see if I could live with it. After one season, I'm tired of it . It doesn't make docking any easier, which is already more difficult with the twin prop...I know I would have to confirm that it isn't anything else before going with the gear set upgrade , but I'm starting to seriously consider it. I've read the old posts on this subject, but I didn't see any outcomes . Has anyone gone through with this, and was it worth it ? I believe the cost for this job (parts and labor) to be around $1500.00 Is that in the ballpark ? Thanks...

 

[JustJason]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

gears don't have anything to do with shifting, the uppers are always spinning wether your in gear or not.

First is the correct merc HP gear oil being used.

2nd, disconnect the throttle shift cables at the helm and see if it's the shifter itself thats sticky. If its not then it's most likely the lower shift cable that goes between the motor and the drive unit.

3rd, what is your in foward gear idle rpms?? If they are to high the drive's not going to want to shift out.

4th.... you need a new mechanic. He doesn't have a clue what he's doing.

 

[havasuboatman]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

Jason, stop holding back! Feel free to tell it like it is!

 

[JustJason]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

Jason, stop holding back! Feel free to tell it like it is!

Okay

It doesn't make docking any easier, which is already more difficult with the twin prop

5th... if your having a hard time docking with a duoprop then you need to take a seamanship course. It's easier to dock with a dual vs single prop.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

Okay



5th... if your having a hard time docking with a duoprop then you need to take a seamanship course. It's easier to dock with a dual vs single prop.

Uuumm, if you don't know why it's harder to dock with a DuoProp or a B3, then you need to drive one some day. And stop making snide comments when you are unsure of the person's meaning.
It's not a manueverability issue, it's a speed issue! Bravo 3s, with their much lower slip %, move VERY fast at idle speeds. A lot more shifting in and out of gear is necessary.

And Jason, since Bravo's shift gears in the top, the top gears are NOT always turning, are they? Fact is, to improve shifting, Mercruiser changed the GEARSET in about 2005. So that is one way to imprive shifting.

I'd still suspect the cables, though.

 

[Don S]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

Bravo's shift gears in the top, the top gears are NOT always turning, are they?

Yes, they are always turning, it's the vertical shaft that isn't turning, the cone engages in the cone of the gears to change gears from forward to reverse.

Fact is, to improve shifting, Mercruiser changed the GEARSET in about 2005.

Interesting, I worked for a Mercruser dealer back then, never heard of that. Can you post some more info on it? Bulletin number what the problem was about etc?

 

[treetopclimber]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

Jason...Thanks for the brutal honesty ; now I know why i was starting to feel sore earlier !!! I get your points though. The cables are still the most likely suspect. I also thought the gear set upgrade included shift components. TilliamWe hit my point about the docking right on the head...

 

[Don S]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

You have a problem with it going into gear, can we assume it comes out of gear ok? Is it hard going into reverse?
Need answers to both questions.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

Yes, they are always turning, it's the vertical shaft that isn't turning, the cone engages in the cone of the gears to change gears from forward to reverse.



Interesting, I worked for a Mercruser dealer back then, never heard of that. Can you post some more info on it? Bulletin number what the problem was about etc?

Thanks.

And no I can't provide the service bulletin, but I suppose I'll look through my now 4 year old magazines and advertising that ALL stated the gearset change IMPROVES shifting. Sorry I don't have Mercruiser access like you, but if they didn't change the gearset to improve shift feel, then why did they change it? And why was it marketed to dealers and magazines as a "shift feel" improver?

treetopper, anyone who hasn't driven a B3 before has NO idea what they are truly like at low speeds. I let a friend use mine once and warned him about it. When he got back to the dock his statement was "You weren't kidding! How do you back it in the slip like you do every time and not have the sides of the boat all beat to H*ll?!"

 

[Don S]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

All the things that Merc was doing for the shifting, was for getting it OUT of gear. there is nothiing holding the clutch cone or anything from going IN gear. That's why I ask him about when it was hard to shift.
You can change gears all day long, but it has nothing what-so-ever with going into gear. You should be able to do that easily at any RPM. and even if the engine isn't running.

 

[treetopclimber]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

You have a problem with it going into gear, can we assume it comes out of gear ok? Is it hard going into reverse?
Need answers to both questions.

Don...Going into forward you have to muscle it a bit. Forward to neutral is stiff , but not as bad. Reverse in/out is OK, but not to be confused with smooth...

 

[Don S]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

Disconnect the shift cable that goes to the helm control. Start the engine on muffs. Then see if you can shift it to fwd, neut, and rev. using the lever at the engine.

 

[JustJason]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

Uuumm, if you don't know why it's harder to dock with a DuoProp or a B3, then you need to drive one some day.

Duhh, Which is why I wrote....

3rd, what is your in foward gear idle rpms?? If they are to high the drive's not going to want to shift out.

And obvisoulsy if the in gear idle rpms are to high the boat "ain't gonna go slow" duoprop or not.

And Jason, since Bravo's shift gears in the top, the top gears are NOT always turning, are they? Fact is, to improve shifting, Mercruiser changed the GEARSET in about 2005. So that is one way to imprive shifting.

Well Don answered if for me. But yes in fact the Upper gears are always spinning when the engine is running. I've never heard of a replacement gearset either for any of the bravo line up. They shift fine out of the factory with the gears they come with. And if you run it low on oil or are shifting it at to high an rpm your going to burn up the cone.

Sorry If I came off sour in my first post guys. I stand by my original points 1 through 4.
Point 5 is open to interpretation

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

I've never heard of a replacement gearset either for any of the bravo line up. They shift fine out of the factory with the gears they come with.

Well, considering they changed the upper gearsets in/around the 2005 model year, (at the same time they changed the shape of the rear cover at the top) I think it's odd that a Mercruiser Service Technician wouldn't know that. Maybe Mercruiser didn't really change anything except the shape of that plastic cover, but told the public and Doug Russell that they did? Was it a lie to keep Doug Russell and others from being able to sell their "non-current drives" for the same prices that Mercruiser could charge for a "new updated drive"? Anything is possible, I guess.

And Jason, you are close to correct on one other point, Bravo 3s tend to be paired with fuel injected motors. Which Mercruiser seems to set the idle pretty high on. So if someone has a motor idling at 1000rpm and puts in in gear, it will be going very fast with a Bravo 3 for docking conditions. But from his original post, he seems to be making the comparision to other similiar boats, and doesn't mention a high idle problem. A high idle problem is a problem in any boat, not just an F.I. one.

 

[treetopclimber]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

I believe my idle speed was around 700-750 ( a little high)... I do a lot of my own maintenance, but not all . So I was more or less trusting the mechanic on this one and assuming he troubleshot the problem correctly. It made sense to me at the time...The gearset upgrades do include a new clutch...My plan now is to just troubleshoot from the remote control back and see where that leads ...Thanks for everyone's input...

 

[Don S]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

High idle WILL cause a problem with coming out of gear, but is not what is causing the problem going INTO gear.

I think it's odd that a Mercruiser Service Technician wouldn't know that. Maybe Mercruiser didn't really change anything except the shape of that plastic cover, but told the public and Doug Russell that they did?

I know they changed the looks of the drive, just never heard they changed it to cure a hard shifting poroblem.
"but told the public" How did Mercruiser tell the public? In a magazine article? What if you don't read all the magazine?
Merc sure didn't tell the dealers in a bulletin or anything about the gears being changed to make the shifting easier, and I didn't work at Doug Russel either.
The dealership I worked at, it was required that we read all bulletins and initial them as they came in. Training videos were also requiered watching as they came in.
Seems no one else here at iboats has heard about this gear upgrade for stiff shifting either.

 

[Don S]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/01/01_17.pdf

Above is a 2001 service bulletin about the gear change, nothing in it about it curing a hard shifting problem.

Since you and Tilliam are so set on changing the gears because they COULD be the problem, instead of checking things out first to make sure it's the gears, then have at it. It's not my money.

 

[treetopclimber]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

Don...Sorry about the post on the other thread...Believe me, I am not itching to change the gears. I'm just trying to figure this out. I'm going to give it a rest ; its' getting a little testy in here...

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

Howdy,

Point 5 is open to interpretation

Maybe...... but comparing the King Cobra that I pulled out with my Bravo III, The boat is absolutely easier to control at low (docking) speeds hands down! No comparison.

My 1997 model year B3 also shifts easily and positively. It may be related to the shift control. I replaced mine with a Teleflex CH1700 and it made it even easier. BUT.....I also have the idle set at the right RPM.


Cheers,


Rick

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Bravo 3 hard shifting

http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/01/01_17.pdf

Above is a 2001 service bulletin about the gear change, nothing in it about it curing a hard shifting problem.

Since you and Tilliam are so set on changing the gears because they COULD be the problem, instead of checking things out first to make sure it's the gears, then have at it. It's not my money.

Actually Don, I stated that the cables are more likely. I am not advising a gear change at all. My 1997 with the old gears shifted great from 240 hours (when I bought it in 2001) all the way up to 800 hours (when I sold it in 2008).

So Mercruiser sold Trailer Boats and Boating magazine "testers" a bill of goods, when they got them to write in their reviews that the new gearsets improved shifting? Sorry you didn't read the reviews, but I did and was told by one (irreputable) Mercruiser tech that the new drives (2005up) shifted better than the old ones. I'll start looking through my boxes in storage to find the articles.