Boy did I get my eyes opened today, Repair shops are out of hand!

[MTboatguy]

So the wife comes home the other day in the Subaru wagon that she bought last summer, everything working out pretty good with it, nice little car!

She comes in the other day, says the A/C is not really blowing cold, so I check and recharge it, works like a champ for about a week, no more cold, very uncomfortable to drive during the dog days of summer, so I run it to the A/C shop today, they open the hood, spend 5 minutes looking at it and tell me, it is going to cost between $650 and $700 to fix it........:scared:

After I nearly fell on my face, choked on my coke and got weak in the knees, I told them she will be hot and have to roll the windows down when it is hot!

I used to do A/C on Motor homes and travel trailers, so I know what is involved, unfortunately I sold all my tools, so I am digging around to see what it would cost to pick up another set of gauges and a vacuum pump and some R134a, O-ring kit and lubricant. Total, a little over $150 bucks Picked up the Manifold and gauges as well as the pump from HF, cost me $109 including shipping, a case of R134a, 9 pounds for $50 bucks shipped and a O-ring kit for A/C for $8.99 including shipping through Ama*on so I now will have enough stuff to reseal the system, evacuate it, no big deal cause it is empty, replace the R134a and lubricate as needed for less than 1/5th of what the shop quoted me!

Then I can sell everything and not loose any money! Shops are out of their minds these days, I hate working on this stuff anymore, but I sure don't want to pay their prices and if for some chance the compressor is bad, I can get a new one for less than a hundred bucks!

I didn't even stop to look to see what shop rates were but it must be north of $120 bucks an hour and the mark up on parts and stuff must be crazy!

Wow...

 

[tpenfield]

I don't think the price quoted is all that bad . . . :noidea: sort of depends what was needed.

 

[gm280]

Yea I've been doing my own A/C work for years. It really isn't as difficult as some folks think. I have a nice gauge see and a Robinair 15600 2 stage vacuum pump as well. And I can buy Freon online for a song.

here are tons of places online to buy total A/C kits if you need the compressors and such. Usually a local A/C place that changes the compressor and all will charge $1500 to #2300 dollars or more to redo everything. A person can buy a kit for a couple hundred and evacuate and fill their totally new system for about $300 to $400 dollars. I even changed the evaporator inside the vehicle before. Not a nice job to do, but beats the local costs by lots and lots of dollars.

You could have used a rental or borrowed such gauge sets at some auto parts stores. They even have vacuum pumps as well to loan out. Just a thought. JMHO

 

[tpenfield]

I do my own A/C re-charging. But if the system looses its charge in just a week's time, it sort of takes things to the next level. I found a flakey relay on one of my cars that seemed to be causing the compressor not to kick in. I know if I bring it into a shop, it will rival the cost of fixing a B.O.A.T.

 

[MTboatguy]

I do my own A/C re-charging. But if the system looses its charge in just a week's time, it sort of takes things to the next level. I found a flakey relay on one of my cars that seemed to be causing the compressor not to kick in. I know if I bring it into a shop, it will rival the cost of fixing a B.O.A.T.

Well the way they went about giving me an estimate was hokey and didn't allow them to even see what is going on. I have worked on a lot of A/C stuff in the past, did a lot of work for my buddy that builds RV's for a living. I already know what is wrong on this car, the O-Ring on the low side is bad coming out of the compressor, 5 minute fix, actually 24 oz in a week is not a major thing, most of the time the A/C techs get concerned when they see a pound or more in less than a day. That normally indicates a problem in the hard parts in the system., taking a week to leak out is a normal indicator of an O-ring in the system is weak.

There is nothing wrong in the compressor and the rest of the system is in good shape, evacuating a system is easy, drawing a vacuum to see if it will hold is easy.

One thing I will mention that could save somebody a lot of money in the long run.

Leak sealers! Yup, said the dirty A/C word! Well in the old days, a lot of companies said their product would seal a leak, they would, but what they would do, is mess up evacuation equipment as well as harden in the system, ruining compressors, blowing seals and other really bad things. So they always asked, if the system has leak sealer in it, if you said yes, they said no, they would have to replace the complete system to the tune of thousands of dollars.

Well there is a new type of leak sealer on the market that was invented by Blue Devil called Red Angle, that has a really good reputation, the new generation of leak sealers are an oil based product that actually flows with the other stuff in the closed system and fills voids in both piping as well as around weak O-rings, it never hardens and will not hurt equipment. I mention this, because I noticed it on the shelf at the A/C shop and asked them about it, he explained it to me, so if you have a simple leak in your system, this is one options to getting it working again, most systems would require about 3 oz of the sealer and then fill as normal with 134a.

When you own several cars like I do, all of them equipped with A/C I just figured it would pay to have the tools again, so I can work on and fix when needed and if I don't want to anymore, I can once again sell everything and not loose any money on it.

 

[GA_Boater]

MT - If you have an Autozone around, or another parts store that does the free tool rental, do your own repair. Tools are free and you don't have them sitting on the shelf waiting for the next time you need them.

Two years ago I re-did the AC in my Jeep for the cost of the compressor, drier and of course R-134a and oil. I didn't have a bad compressor, so it didn't need a system flush, but they rent the tools for that too.

The clutch went bad and it was cheaper to buy a new compressor than buy a clutch. All new stuff for the cost of the clutch alone - Go figure.

Since you have a bad O-ring, the tool rental would be an easy solution and it would only cost the O-ring and freon. You get every penny back on the rental.

 

[MTboatguy]

MT - If you have an Autozone around, or another parts store that does the free tool rental, do your own repair. Tools are free and you don't have them sitting on the shelf waiting for the next time you need them.

Two years ago I re-did the AC in my Jeep for the cost of the compressor, drier and of course R-134a and oil. I didn't have a bad compressor, so it didn't need a system flush, but they rent the tools for that too.

The clutch went bad and it was cheaper to buy a new compressor than buy a clutch. All new stuff for the cost of the clutch alone - Go figure.

Since you have a bad O-ring, the tool rental would be an easy solution and it would only cost the O-ring and freon. You get every penny back on the rental.

I have tried to do the borrow thing with them and by time I drive to town, pick it up drive back only to find out it is messed up and don't work right, it is not worth it, being in a small town, most of the time, they don't have one in stock to loan out, cause someone else has already got it!

I have 3 cars that need service right now and two of them I want to sell so making sure the A/C works on them will boost the price that I can get for them. Like I said, after I fix these 3 it won't be difficult to sell it and get more than I paid for the stuff, this summer has been exceptionally warm and lots of people are having A/C problems.!

Maybe I should set up a portable shop and make a few extra bucks, I still have my A/C certification!

 

[bruceb58]

Ahhhh...another miracle in a can. I used to have access to a freon sniffer. That is the best way to detect a leak. 9 times out of 10 it's just an o-ring on a connection and a simple fix. You do not want to put a leak sealer in an AC system. Get the correct equipment and fix it correctly or have someone who has the correct equipment do it.

I know you can buy some of these freon sniffers these days fairly inexpensively. Not sure how well they work.

 

[GA_Boater]

being in a small town, most of the time, they don't have one in stock to loan out, cause someone else has already got it!

I was little concerned that you might not have access when you need it. I had to wait a couple of days until the vacuum pump was returned when I did mine.

 

[mla2ofus]

A few yrs ago the clutch on our car AC wouldn't re-engage or was slow to once the temp got really hot under the hood like when driving in city. I checked the clutch air gap and found it was excessive. Asked 3 different shops to adjust it and, no, they wanted to change the compressor. Ordered a clutch R&R tool for $25 and set it to spec. 4 years later and it's still working fine.
Mike

 

[MTboatguy]

Ahhhh...another miracle in a can. I used to have access to a freon sniffer. That is the best way to detect a leak. 9 times out of 10 it's just an o-ring on a connection and a simple fix. You do not want to put a leak sealer in an AC system. Get the correct equipment and fix it correctly or have someone who has the correct equipment do it.

I know you can buy some of these freon sniffers these days fairly inexpensively. Not sure how well they work.

Actually, I still have my Snap On sniffer, so that is no big deal and you did read, I am going to do it the correct way, right? Beings I am familiar with A/C systems it is no big deal for me to do it the way the shops do it, but I was just offering some information that the A/C shop told me about and recommends to their customers that can't afford or don't want to pay to have it done correctly.

So don't shoot the person delivering the message Bruce.

I am going to evacuate, draw a vacuum, replace O-rings found to be bad, lubricate and then fill to the correct level. I still have the sniffer, because it works with other types of gasses as well as 134a.

Just found it interesting an A/C repair shop was recommending a system leak sealer, I remember a day when they would not even touch your system if you had put leak seal in it.

 

[gm280]

I am sure all you who have worked on any A/C system knows the expansion value is a very cheap little piece of plastic (usually) and if that thing stops up, the system will not work at all. That is why I would never try a stop leak additive thinking it could plug the expansion valve. And while it is probably the cheapest part in an A/C system, it can be a bear to change. The system has to be evacuated and broken open. And that takes time and more Freon after pulling a good vacuum again. JMHO

 

[bruceb58]

I am sure all you who have worked on any A/C system knows the expansion value is a very cheap little piece of plastic (usually) and if that thing stops up, the system will not work at all. That is why I would never try a stop leak additive thinking it could plug the expansion valve. And while it is probably the cheapest part in an A/C system, it can be a bear to change. The system has to be evacuated and broken open. And that takes time and more Freon after pulling a good vacuum again. JMHO

Exactly! That's why when these statements about stop leak get brought up be it radiator or AC stop leak, people need to know there are major potential issues using them.

So don't shoot the person delivering the message Bruce.

Just shooting the message!

 

[bruceb58]

BTW...another very common place for leaks is the pressure valves themselves after you hook gauges to them. If the vehicle is old, the gauges pushing to open the valve cause the valve with it's old o-ring inside to start leaking.

 

[MTboatguy]

Exactly! That's why when these statements about stop leak get brought up be it radiator or AC stop leak, people need to know there are major potential issues using them.

Just shooting the message!

Well I grew up in the old days, if I am going to do it, it will be done correctly, just passing information on that was passed on to me. I guess the major thing, is, if it ain't working and you try it, all you are going to be out is some money and they can still work on the system without the risk of damaging their equipment which was a major concern in the past.

 

[BWR1953]

I got back 6 days ago from a 3240 mile vacation trip. Had a great time but fought with the AC in my wife's car the whole trip. And that was sad because just 2 days before leaving, we had the AC system serviced by the most reputable shop in town. I've done business with them several times on different vehicles and was always satisfied. (Just did my truck 6 weeks ago.)

Prior to the trip, my wife had been complaining that her AC was hot, not cold, which is why I put it in for servicing. The shop said the system was ice cold in the morning when they tested but that they went ahead and evacuated it and checked everything. They found one Schrader valve that needed replacing and they also added a pound of refrigerant. When we got the car back, you could hang meat in there! My wife took the car to work the next day and all was well. Total cost was just $57.

So off we went on our trip. And 35 miles out of town, the AC stopped being cold and started being "cool" instead. This continued for a long time and by afternoon I couldn't stand it anymore. We stopped in South Carolina at a car parts store and bought a single can of sealant/refrigerant with gauge for $40! The store clerk put it in for me and stated that she'd not seen a system take a full can and not come off the "Low" reading. And that the low pressure line was frozen up! She said to take the car back to the AC shop. Uh huh. So I just pressed on with it as it was. Low and behold, the termp inside the car started to get a little cooler. Then within 45 minutes it was cold again!

Then it started blowing ICE out of the dash vents! :smow: :faint2: That stopped after awhile and we made it to our first overnight stop without further issues. The next morning, the AC was cold again so we moved right on up the road. By late afternoon when we arrived at our destination, the AC was running warmer again. Coolish, not cold. I checked the gauge and it read OVER filled. :noidea: While checking, some refrigerant got out, the pressure dropped and it got cooler inside the car again. I dunno what happened, but we fought that system for the entire trip. Sometimes there was moisture in the vents too.

And now in the mornings it's cold but in the afternoon it's hot. My wife is not happy. She thinks the shop "did something" to the system. I doubt it because they've always been straight up with me over the years.

Gotta take it back to the shop but not until next week sometime. Both of us have appointments and can't be without a vehicle.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch... my truck AC "warmed up" too. The shop had said to expect to replace the compressor at some point in the future. They showed me little chunks of bearing material in the refrigerant. Okay, no problem. I had just hoped that it would make it through the summer. No joy.

So I bought a can of AC stop leak and a can of refrigerant and put it in 3 days ago. Still cold! And for $12 for the two cans, it was worth a shot.

Time will tell.

 

[82rude]

Remember when a/c problems were fixed by opening the little triangle window a bit more?:joyous: I really miss those windows!

 

[MTboatguy]

Remember when a/c problems were fixed by opening the little triangle window a bit more?:joyous: I really miss those windows!

I remember those days!

 

[bruceb58]

You need to explain the triangle window.

 

[82rude]

Not really a triangle bruceb58 actually half a triangle i believe that use to be on the side door instead of the full windows we have now.Use to call them poor mans a/c.Think it was just called a side vent window.