Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

[4Winns2]

The story below is what happened on my home lake, Skaneateles, this past Sunday morning around 2:30 AM. Boat full of drunks t-bones and then flies right over a 21' Mastercraft killing/crushing etc two lovers on board. Needless to say it's scary what can happen at night on a boat:

http://www.syracuse.com/articles/news/index.ssf?/base/news-11/118405798570720.xml&coll=1

 

[Cptkid570]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

That's a pretty scary thought. It didn't say exactly how the crash happened. Was the one boat parked? Were both boats moving? Any lights on any of them? Just doesn't make sense. What a shame though.

It sounds like it was really dark out there... when it's real dark, it's not smart to drive fast..

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

All too common an occurrance for us here in Ontario lake country. Dumba**es get liqoured up and reach for the keys like the middle of the night on a lake is a safe place to be.

One local scenario has doofus deciding he was gonna buzz two boats at night by going right up the middle between them. Great idea except they were escorting a boat whose running lights had failed. Drove right over it and killed the driver.

Another hit an exposed shoal near my friend's place and launched himself through the windshield, leaving most of one leg behind. Everyone within two miles heard the screams.

Still another two boats from the same cottage party collided when heading out to watch the sunrise and have a couple more oat sodas. Second boat runs first boat over at the lookout area. Another dead.

We've got an OPP water patrol detachment nearby with probably fifteen boats and still we can't keep up with the idiots. Take yourself out -- fine. Kill others, and I say a date at wet end of some anchor chain is in order.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

That's a pretty scary thought. It didn't say exactly how the crash happened. Was the one boat parked? Were both boats moving? Any lights on any of them? Just doesn't make sense. What a shame though.

It sounds like it was really dark out there... when it's real dark, it's not smart to drive fast..

The Mastercraft with the two lovers on board were stationary with nav lights on (the way the Sheriff found the boat) in the middle of the lake (boats travel there at night, usually). It appears since the boat was found in neutral and not running that they were sitting there under no power. I thought they might have mentioned whether the key was turned to the on position to quell that mystery.

No excuses for drunk and lighting the engine up on a very dark night. I was out on the lake that night until 10 and no moon/no visibility. Even without those factors, one can usually see nav lights (if they're looking ahead and not talking to those behind them) a couple of miles away at least. What has me really scratching my head is why didn't the couple in the Mastercraft hear or see (nav lights were on the boat coming at them that hit them) that this boat was getting far too close to them?? I don't like a boat at night within 300 yards of me. All they had to do was start the engine, if it hadn't been running already, and move out of the way. The one gentleman who was killed grew up on the lake and I'm sure he knows that at that time of the morning the drunks are screaming home. Plus, you'd think as a cop he would have been more careful. Don't know all the details as the story continues to unfold here in the Syracuse area. In any instance, it's a tragedy.

 

[tmh]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

Wow, we boat in the Finger lakes also - this scares the heck out of me!

Dark nights are soooooo dark.....just gobble up any spot lights or whatever you think will light the way. No reason to be over 5 mph or so at night, just too fangerous. Drunk, of course, not safe at any speed day or particularily night.

I'd never be able to anchor all night except practically on shore or in a hidden area. I'd just be so scared all night some loser was goingto run us over.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

Wow, we boat in the Finger lakes also - this scares the heck out of me!

Dark nights are soooooo dark.....just gobble up any spot lights or whatever you think will light the way. No reason to be over 5 mph or so at night, just too fangerous. Drunk, of course, not safe at any speed day or particularily night.

I'd never be able to anchor all night except practically on shore or in a hidden area. I'd just be so scared all night some loser was goingto run us over.

When I'm running at night, I light up my spot every 10 minutes or so and do a 360 with it so I can be seen in addition to my nav lights. These days I don't go out at night as much; maybe once or twice- -the wife doesn't like it.

I sleep in the cuddy of our boat at our mooring quite a bit. My wife brought up the possibility of some idiot too close to shore taking me out at the mooring while sleeping. By in large, most, even the drunks, travel in the middle of the lake at night. I seldomly see someone close to shore at night. I'm going to continue sleep on the mooring (15 yards from shore within the buoy line) any ways: you've got to be safe but you can't live in fear.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

When I was younger and stupid, I and some others were flying back up river after closing the bars (Chain of Lakes in northern Illinois...real party area..still is)...getting pretty darn close to where I was to turn into our channel. Shore lights in the background...just about out of nowhere was the outline of a boat..last second saw the front Nav light,...SHARP cut to the left, then correct to right just before I would have slammed them sideways, Missed the idiot by 20 feet (I had a 70mph boat). Some stupid girl was sitiing on the transom, COMPLETLY blocking the rear Nav light..

Believe in Angels..

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

When I was younger and stupid, I and some others were flying back up river after closing the bars (Chain of Lakes in northern Illinois...real party area..still is)...getting pretty darn close to where I was to turn into our channel. Shore lights in the background...just about out of nowhere was the outline of a boat..last second saw the front Nav light,...SHARP cut to the left, then correct to right just before I would have slammed them sideways, Missed the idiot by 20 feet (I had a 70mph boat). Some stupid girl was sitiing on the transom, COMPLETLY blocking the rear Nav light..

Believe in Angels..

No question, I did some stupid things on a boat in my younger days too. What I can't understand from your story, and the tragic local story here this past weekend, is why do people sit in a boat traffic lane and allow themselves to be sitting ducks. Sounds like your instance too. Man, if I were stopped anywhere where a boat could come through, the engine is on and I'm at the ready to drop that bad boy in forward and get out of the way.

 

[sea wolf]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

The Mastercraft with the two lovers on board were stationary with nav lights on (the way the Sheriff found the boat) in the middle of the lake (boats travel there at night, usually). It appears since the boat was found in neutral and not running that they were sitting there under no power. I thought they might have mentioned whether the key was turned to the on position to quell that mystery.

No excuses for drunk and lighting the engine up on a very dark night. I was out on the lake that night until 10 and no moon/no visibility. Even without those factors, one can usually see nav lights (if they're looking ahead and not talking to those behind them) a couple of miles away at least. What has me really scratching my head is why didn't the couple in the Mastercraft hear or see (nav lights were on the boat coming at them that hit them) that this boat was getting far too close to them?? I don't like a boat at night within 300 yards of me. All they had to do was start the engine, if it hadn't been running already, and move out of the way. The one gentleman who was killed grew up on the lake and I'm sure he knows that at that time of the morning the drunks are screaming home. Plus, you'd think as a cop he would have been more careful. Don't know all the details as the story continues to unfold here in the Syracuse area. In any instance, it's a tragedy.

That's total bull**it. He should have known better? No, the rich punk that was drunk should have known better. So, we should leave our boats running at night in case some drunken moron might be around? The lousy bas**rd never even turned back to see if there was anything he could do to assist the couple that he ran over, then was ready to let his brother take the fall when he lied to the cops about who was driving. A real stand up citizen.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

That's total bull**it. He should have known better? No, the rich punk that was drunk should have known better. So, we should leave our boats running at night in case some drunken moron might be around? The lousy bas**rd never even turned back to see if there was anything he could do to assist the couple that he ran over, then was ready to let his brother take the fall when he lied to the cops about who was driving. A real stand up citizen.

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree he should have known better. Even without alcohol, humans still make stupid mistakes regardless of their intelligence level, or whether they're rich or not or whether they're...fill in the blank. Add a decent amount of rocket fuel/alchohol to anyone and the probability for stupid and dire mistakes like this increases tenfold.

I think you're missing my point in all of this. In a perfect world, it's obvious that mistakes wouldn't happen- -boozed up or not. At that bewitching drunk hour of 2AM on a weekend night you've got to be hyper vilgiliant and in self-preservation mode- -trust no one with your life. It's not going to matter to me whether someone else should have known better after I'm dead. Right or wrong of whether you choose to drink and drive or not has nothing to do with not being aware that it's a fact that it happens and you have to be careful out there. So, in this instance I feel there was some responsibilty on the part of the victim as captain of that boat to be aware (he did grow up on the lake and was a cop) that on a weekend night at that particular time you have to be extra, extra careful of others. Again, it's not so much about right or wrong (the premise of this thread), it's all about preparation and being aware of your surroundings and being CAREFUL. So, yes, while sitting in a well known boat traffic lane and fully aware that drunks are out, my boat would have been under power and ready to evade. But, that's a moot point because I wouldn't even have been sitting there in the first place.

As far as fleeing the scene? You bet that was cowardly and inhumane. I'm sure we can all see what kind of person this guy is. This fact alone infuriates me but that's not part of my argument here. No disrespect intended towards you. We all become frustrated when senseless tragedy strikes. I've just to look out for my own well being since I can't trust others to- -drunk or not.

 

[bjcsc]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

That's total bull**it. He should have known better? No, the rich punk that was drunk should have known better. So, we should leave our boats running at night in case some drunken moron might be around? The lousy bas**rd never even turned back to see if there was anything he could do to assist the couple that he ran over, then was ready to let his brother take the fall when he lied to the cops about who was driving. A real stand up citizen.

In a perfect world I would agree with you. But, it's kind of like using a crosswalk at a busy intersection. What matters the most, that you have the right of way or that you will be dead if the car hits you? You couldn't pay me to anchor out in any of the channels around here at night. It's not really a matter of how "stand-up" the guy is, it's a matter of what is a safe course of action for those of us who enjoy boating without drinking. Me, I don't even go near the water on the 4th of July and I would never anchor in any area boats pass through.

 

[bjcsc]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

Hey 4Winns2: If you're ever out on Oneida and see a big trawler named "Slow Dancer" say hello to my parents for me...

 

[rndn]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

They should have known better. I've been fishing on the finger lakes area and have had more than one close call with some jerk cruising faster than he should be with a boat load of people. Don't know if they were drunk or just not paying attention, one time I was trolling and actually had to give the motor throttle to get out of the way and another time I had to flash my spotlight at the driver. Both times had I not been paying attention I strongly feel I would have been hit. The finger lakes area is extremely saturated with boats on weekends and holidays, usually with morons that only boat once per year. Not that everybody who boats once a year is a moron, it just seems that way.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

In a perfect world I would agree with you. But, it's kind of like using a crosswalk at a busy intersection. What matters the most, that you have the right of way or that you will be dead if the car hits you? You couldn't pay me to anchor out in any of the channels around here at night. It's not really a matter of how "stand-up" the guy is, it's a matter of what is a safe course of action for those of us who enjoy boating without drinking. Me, I don't even go near the water on the 4th of July and I would never anchor in any area boats pass through.

Thanks for your feedback and understanding my argument. Right after I had written my post above, I navigated over to the Syracuse Post Standard's website for the news and any updates on the accident. On the home page was an article written by a very close friend of our family who is a columnist, Sean Kirst, with the paper. The article is based on the findings of a doctor in New Mexico who specifically studies alcohol use and it's relation to driving- -boat or car. He primary point is that we as a society do not become enraged about drinking and driving until there is a high profile accident take place. She further explains that it is commonplace most every night in taverns and bars across America. And, the attitude among those who choose to do so is that a few won't hurt me and I'm okay being on the roads or waterways. In other words, it's always someone elses mistake because it couldn't happen to me since I can handle it. I hope I explained that correctly? The link to the story is below for those interested- -good story:

http://www.syracuse.com/articles/news/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1184145392304330.xml&coll=1

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

Hey 4Winns2: If you're ever out on Oneida and see a big trawler named "Slow Dancer" say hello to my parents for me...

I don't trail my Four Winns at all; she stays on the mooring at my parents place on Skaneateles. I have taken my 13 footer (she "gets it", as it were, with a 15hp Johnny) up to Onieda several times in years past but haven't been up there recently. I love the beauty and the size of that lake and the fact that it isn't landlocked. The one thing that was annoying is having to back her up frequently to get seaweed or millfoil out of the prop. Ever since the zebra mussels took over a lot more of that stuff is on the surface in many parts of the lake. If I get up there this year, I'll keep an eye out for your parents boat. Take care.

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

They should have known better. I've been fishing on the finger lakes area and have had more than one close call with some jerk cruising faster than he should be with a boat load of people. Don't know if they were drunk or just not paying attention, one time I was trolling and actually had to give the motor throttle to get out of the way and another time I had to flash my spotlight at the driver. Both times had I not been paying attention I strongly feel I would have been hit. The finger lakes area is extremely saturated with boats on weekends and holidays, usually with morons that only boat once per year. Not that everybody who boats once a year is a moron, it just seems that way.

Randy:

In my 35 years of boating on Skaneateles, I know what you're saying. I've had a handful of close calls at night. Had a guy with no nav lights one year cross my rooster 15 feet off my stern. There are more close call stories worse then that one but I'll spare your time at the moment. I fixed the problem some years ago, I just don't go out at night that often anymore. I think if I get out after dark twice in a season that's about it. I'm curious, what lakes do you frequent?

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

No question, I did some stupid things on a boat in my younger days too. What I can't understand from your story, and the tragic local story here this past weekend, is why do people sit in a boat traffic lane and allow themselves to be sitting ducks. Sounds like your instance too. Man, if I were stopped anywhere where a boat could come through, the engine is on and I'm at the ready to drop that bad boy in forward and get out of the way.

Thing is, they were just leaving the bar that was at the end of our channel. I was flying along 100 yards from shore, lot of shore lights, Populated lakes with fast boats, a Saturday night, at 2am....well, I just don't go there and do that anymore. I live on the west coast now (zero night driving, only moor in well know coves and inlets for a overnighter). I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure after dusk there is a speed limit now of about 20mph there. But laws do nothing in the way of adding common sense. Trouble is there are more and more boats and preople on the lakes now....

 

[4Winns2]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

Thing is, they were just leaving the bar that was at the end of our channel. I was flying along 100 yards from shore, lot of shore lights, Populated lakes with fast boats, a Saturday night, at 2am....well, I just don't go there and do that anymore. I live on the west coast now (zero night driving, only moor in well know coves and inlets for a overnighter). I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure after dusk there is a speed limit now of about 20mph there. But laws do nothing in the way of adding common sense. Trouble is there are more and more boats and preople on the lakes now....

Same circumstance here (don't know if you read the article I attached on my first post) in that these five guys were just leaving a string of bars in town after a 12 hour drinking binge. Where the accident happened is the most narrow part of the lake: about 4 to 5 tenths of a mile- -not much in traffic lanes between shorelines. The lake itself isn't a wide one overall with the widest section being three quarters of a mile at the widest point. It is 16 miles long, btw. Where the victims were sitting is a danger zone as you can see. The drunks fire up the engines and head out and it becomes the boating version of Russian roulette. This poor guy who was killed grew up there on the lake and had to have known this danger. I just don't get why he would trust drunks flying out of town to be sure and see him? It was so wrong for them to be operating the boat in that condition, granted. The fact is that it happens (people drink and drive there and have doing it for many, many years) and you have to protect yourself by staying far from the drunks at the wheel. Tragic, just tragic.

I don't get the 20mph speed limit you guys have? Do they ever enforce it after dark? Here? We have one Sheriffs boat on the lake full-time. The catch to that is that the boat isn't out there full-time since the county budget isn't geared to pay for that kind of labor volume.

 

[tic]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

It's hard enough to avoid collisions in daylight on a weekend at Blue Marsh lake near Reading PA.. We boat there frequently as it's close to us and there is no fear of hitting rocks, unlike the susquehanna river.. Water skiing on a hot saturday afternoon on Blue Marsh is almost suicidal.. I often wonder how many operators are under the influence.. I'm not a tee toadler mind you but a cooler full of beer on a fast boat on a small lake with LOTS of other boats is just foolish...I'm quite surprised we don't read of more tragedies like this one...

 

[Cptkid570]

Re: Boats crash in Cent NY and kill two- -scary!

1. The drunk guy shouldn't have been driving so fast on a dark night
2. The killed guy shouldn't have parked in the middle of a narrow channel where he knows there is boating traffic.
3. The drunk guy shouldn't have been driving drunk
4. I completely agree with the 2nd article posted -- when someone drives drunk and hurts/kills someone, society thinks its so horrific that the person was driving drunk, however, besides minor traffic offenses (like speeding, rolling a stop sign,etc), drunk driving is probably one of the most widely commited crimes. Especially drinking and operating a boat.