Boat wont start

[joelger]

I went to winterize my 2010 SeaRay 250slx (8.2 mercruiser) When i tried to start it the engine turned very slowly like the batteries were dead, then it just stopped. I charged the batteries and now when i try to start it nothing happens at all. The guages all come on but when i turn the key to the start position nothing at all happens. When i return the key to the on position, after a few seconds i get an error telling me the voltage is low. I have 12.8 and 13.2 at the batteries. I removed the main terminals from the posts and cleaned them up but that didnt help. I checked every fuse i could find as well as the 3 breakers.
I have the rinda software and put that on it and it shows 0 system voltage and 5v sensor. Report is attached.
I also noticed that the neutral switch has a value of 1 and the emergency stop switch has a value of 0.
Any thoughts on where to look next?


1. VEHICLE CONFIGURATION





Cust. Name: na


Engine Make: na


Engine Serial No: na


Model Year: na


System Type: Mercury CAN Module ID = MY10p5AAC 8M2022583 003





2. PERFORMANCE DATA





Parameter Description Value Unit





Engine Speed.......................................... 0 rpm


Idle Set RPM.......................................... 0 rpm


IAC Position....................................... 10.0 %


Battery Volts...................................... 12.5 vdc


System Voltage...................................... 0.0 vdc


Sensor Power 1...................................... 5.0 vdc


Sensor Power 2...................................... 5.0 vdc


Barometric Pres.................................... 30.0 inHg


Manifold Pres...................................... 30.0 inHg


Available Power................................... 100.0 %


Guardian Cause..................................... None


Throttle Pct........................................ 9.1 %


TPS 1 ADC Counts.................................... 177 #


Engine Load......................................... 7.8 %


Base Spark Adv...................................... 2.0 deg


Sea Pump Pressure................................... 0.0 psi


Stbd ECT Sensor.................................... 45.7 F


Port EMCT Sensor................................... 53.4 F


Stbd EMCT Sensor................................... 49.4 F


IAT Sensor......................................... 65.1 F


Oil Pressure........................................ 0.0 psi


Fuel Per Cyl........................................ 0.0 mg


Fuel Flow Rate...................................... 0.0 gph


Actual Gear..................................... Neutral


Neutral Switch........................................ 1 #


Shift Anticip Sw...................................... 0 #


Emergency Stop Sw..................................... 0 #


E-Stop ADC Counts................................... 754 #


Trim Position...................................... 20.6 %


Trim ADC Counts..................................... 270 #


Fuel Level 1........................................ 100 #


Fuel Level 2.......................................... 0 #


Pitot Pres ADC...................................... 109 #


Paddle Wheel.......................................... 0 Hz


SmartCrft Sea Temp................................ 165.4 F


SmartCrft Depth..................................... 0.0 ft


Engine Location............................... Starboard


Misfire Percent..................................... 0.0 %


Misfire Cyl 1......................................... 0 #


Misfire Cyl 2......................................... 0 #


Misfire Cyl 3......................................... 0 #


Misfire Cyl 4......................................... 0 #


Misfire Cyl 5......................................... 0 #


Misfire Cyl 6......................................... 0 #


Misfire Cyl 7......................................... 0 #


Misfire Cyl 8......................................... 0 #


Inj 1 On-Time....................................... 0.0 ms


Inj 2 On-Time....................................... 0.0 ms


Inj 3 On-Time....................................... 0.0 ms


Inj 4 On-Time....................................... 0.0 ms


Inj 5 On-Time....................................... 0.0 ms


Inj 6 On-Time....................................... 0.0 ms


Inj 7 On-Time....................................... 0.0 ms


Inj 8 On-Time....................................... 0.0 ms


Knock Retard Cyl 1.................................. 0.0 deg


Knock Retard Cyl 2.................................. 0.0 deg


Knock Retard Cyl 3.................................. 0.0 deg


Knock Retard Cyl 4.................................. 0.0 deg


Knock Retard Cyl 5.................................. 0.0 deg


Knock Retard Cyl 6.................................. 0.0 deg


Knock Retard Cyl 7.................................. 0.0 deg


Knock Retard Cyl 8.................................. 0.0 deg


O2 Control State.............................. Open Loop


O2 Sensor-A ADC..................................... 38 #


O2 Sensor-B ADC..................................... 39 #


O2 Sensor-C ADC..................................... 48 #


O2 Sensor-D ADC..................................... 34 #


Fuel Trim Port...................................... 0.0 %


O2 Bias Port........................................ 0.0 %


Fuel Trim Stbd...................................... 0.0 %


O2 Bias Stbd........................................ 0.0 %


PO2S Disable Reason............................ PID Time


O2SR Disable Reason......................... Diag Checks


O2SR Disable Rsn Port.............................. None


O2SR Disable Rsn Stbd.............................. None


O2 Switch Ratio Port............................... 1.00 #


O2 Switch Ratio Stbd............................... 1.00 #


CATM Disable Reason.......................... Temp Range


CATM Status Port............................... Disabled


CATM Status Stbd............................... Disabled


O2 Lean Resp Port................................... 0.0 sec


O2 Rich Resp Port................................... 0.0 sec


O2 Lean Resp Stbd................................... 0.0 sec


O2 Rich Resp Stbd................................... 0.0 sec


OSC Index EWMA Port................................ 2.71 #


OSC Raw Port....................................... 0.00 mg


OSC Index EWMA Stbd................................ 3.57 #


OSC Raw Stbd....................................... 0.00 mg


O2 Adapt Cell-1 Port............................. -0.03 #


O2 Adapt Cell-2 Port............................. -0.01 #


O2 Adapt Cell-3 Port.............................. 0.00 #


O2 Adapt Cell-4 Port.............................. 0.00 #


O2 Adapt Cell-5 Port............................. -0.03 #


O2 Adapt Cell-6 Port.............................. 0.02 #


O2 Adapt Cell-7 Port.............................. 0.01 #


O2 Adapt Cell-8 Port.............................. 0.00 #


O2 Adapt Cell-9 Port.............................. 0.00 #


O2 Adapt Cell-1 Stbd............................. -0.02 #


O2 Adapt Cell-2 Stbd.............................. 0.03 #


O2 Adapt Cell-3 Stbd.............................. 0.01 #


O2 Adapt Cell-4 Stbd.............................. 0.01 #


O2 Adapt Cell-5 Stbd............................. -0.01 #


O2 Adapt Cell-6 Stbd.............................. 0.03 #


O2 Adapt Cell-7 Stbd.............................. 0.02 #


O2 Adapt Cell-8 Stbd.............................. 0.00 #


O2 Adapt Cell-9 Stbd.............................. 0.00 #


Operating Hours................................... 130.1 hrs





3. TROUBLE CODE STATUS





Current ECM Codes





******************************* Currently Active Faults *******************************





MERCURY FAULT NAME FAULT DESCRIPTION





SysVolt_FaultBlocker Battery Voltage Low at PCM Driver Power Pins

 

[alldodge]

Measuring voltage at the starter post, what is the reading when key is turned to start?

Do you get 2 beeps when key is turned to ON?

 

[joelger]

I havent tried that and i will tomorrow but when i turn the key to start, absolutely nothin happens. It is as if the boat is not in neutral or the emergency stop switch it open. Looking at the diagram in the repair manual, it shows a slave solenoid which i cant seem to find. As i said, i will check the voltage at the starter post but since the starter solenoid isnt engaging im inclined to think there would be no voltage change.

 

[alldodge]

Key turns ON no beeps but gauges turn on

This means power is making it to the key and heads back to motor but ECM is not being turned ON, or as listed voltage is low so ECM will not fully power up.

There are at least 3 fuses and 2 to 3 relays on top the motor. The relays are the same and can be swapped. Could be a bad connection in the main power relay

 

[joelger]

Thanks, I have the idea in my mind that it might be a fuse/relay/breaker but im not sure where to look. I checked every fuse i could find and they are all ok. I would like to see if i can find the power pin on the ECM and check it there as well.

 

[alldodge]

Don't have a wiring diagram for your motor. I do have a service bulletin for the PCM09, yours being a 2010 it may have this, need serial number to verify.

The SB does list pin out

 

[Scott Danforth]

Pull plugs and try to turn it over. if water comes out, you have trouble shooting steps ahead.

 

[joelger]

its not hydrostatic lock.

 

[stresspoint]

sounds like another one of those cheapassed expensive battery switches has failed again.

 

[QBhoy]

Either one of your batteries is done and affecting the ability to start and other battery…or you’ve a bad connection at a battery isolator or earth. You might even have an issue with the starting relay.
Personally…I’d try to start it using just one proven to be good battery. Your reported battery voltages make me suspicious around the batteries in particular. Only because..one being over 13, must mean that it’s a reading from a battery that’s getting charged or literally after the engine has just stopped seconds before. A resting battery on its own can’t possibly show more than 13 volts otherwise. With this in mind…for the other battery to be significantly lower in the same state and same time as the higher reading battery…suggests that the lower testing battery is almost certainly a strong suspect to be the culprit.

 

[joelger]

Thanks very much, that was going to be my next thing to try. Unfortunately i haven't had time to get back to it. As far as the fuses go, i have checked every on that i can find and they are good. I even went so far as to test them with an ohm meter. Does anyone know where i would find the starter relay?

 

[alldodge]

On top the motor
If you have 3 square relays then one of them is the slave relay
If you have 2 square relays then the slave relay looks like pic

 

[joelger]

Yesterday i found that the 50amp breaker on top of the motor is bad. I put a fused jumper across it and now i have power to the pcm. 12.8v battery and 12.6v system. I was able to clear the error codes. The boat still will not start however now i am hearing a faint clicking when i try to start it. It sounds more like a relay click than the solenoid on the starter.
I still cant seem to find that starter slave solenoid anywhere. I found the starter relay and was able to test that and it seems fine. There is a second relay next to it but also a third relay way down below it. The labels for all 3 relays are Starter / Relay / Fuel pump. I am assuming the one called "relay" is my slave?
Would anyone happen to have a wiring diagram for this. Im happy to buy a manual but i need to get this thing winterized ASAP and the delivery time for the manuals is quite long. If anyone knows where i could download one that would be helpful as well.
My next looksee is going to have to be the starter. The bottom of the engine was submerged a few months back due to torrential rain. It wasnt salt water but im thinking that may have screwed up the starter.
As i said, when all this started the boat did turn over a few times and then it sounded as if the batteries were dead. Also i did run the boat a few hours after the water got in so it hasnt been sitting for a long time with water in the starter. Running it should have steamed the water out of it.

 

[alldodge]

Post 1

When i tried to start it the engine turned very slowly like the batteries were dead, then it just stopped. I charged the batteries and now when i try to start it nothing happens at all. The guages all come on but when i turn the key to the start position nothing at all happens. When i return the key to the on position, after a few seconds i get an error telling me the voltage is low.

Post 3

I havent tried that and i will tomorrow but when i turn the key to start, absolutely nothin happens.

Post 13

As i said, when all this started the boat did turn over a few times and then it sounded as if the batteries were dead. Also i did run the boat a few hours after the water got in so it hasnt been sitting for a long time with water in the starter.

Water in the starter is new
The boat did run after it wouldn't start? Just guessing but maybe it got water in starter (water high enough in bilge) and then boat was run before this last thing started? Verify

The labels for all 3 relays are Starter / Relay / Fuel pump.

You have 3 relays and they are all the same type but have 3 different functions.
Fuel pump relay (FPR)
Main power relay (MPR)
start relay (also called slave relay)

How they are used.
Key turned to ON and power energizes MPR which sends power to one side of FPR and PCM. When PCM powers up you get 2 beeps and PCM grounds other side of FPR which turns FP ON for couple seconds, then ground is removed.

One side of the slave relay is grounded, When key turned to start, 12V is sent thru Yel/Red wire thru neutral safety switch to other side of slave relay. If slave energizes power is sent from other contacts on slave relay to starter solenoid which energizes starter

This is FPR and MPR

 

[joelger]

Got it figured out with some questions. To clarify, during the summer we had some torrential rain for about a week. Some idiot (me) forgot to take the plug out of the back and the bilge filled up with water. Very high in fact. I also found that the drains around the engine hatch were clogged so water was cascading over the gutter and dropping right down on top of the engine. On the port side of the boat there is a oil fill cap that isnt used but i assume it is so the can use the same valve covers on both sides. Water made its way in to the engine. It took 5 oil changes to get all of the foam out. But either way the starter most definitely was submerged.
Once i got the foam out of the oil, i used the boat for a total of about 3 hours and all seemed fine. The boat was sitting for about a month when i went out to winterize it last week. When i tried to start it up, it turned a few time and sounded if the batteries were very weak, then it stopped turning. I charged the batteries and that is where i got in to trouble.
When i tried to start it up with the batteries charged that is where i started this post. I did find the breaker very early on and pressed the button and heard a click. Then the button moved in and out with no resistance at all. I thought that was the issue but nothing had changed. I went through all of the steps that i have listed here but when i was looking for those relays, i saw that i could see the terminals on the back of the breaker so i just figured i would put an ohm meter on them and found that the circuit was open. I then put a fused jumper across the terminals and tried to start the boat. It still wouldnt start but i did notice the audio alerts changed. When i put the diacom cable on and connected it to my PC i found that i had proper voltage at the PCM.
Now im all confused because if the low voltage (no voltage) at the PCM was corrected, why wasnt the boat starting? I still couldnt hear any clicking at the starter so now i was totally lost.
At this point i put a test light (logic probe) on the coil terminal of the solenoid right on the starter and it lit up when i turned the key so clearly the problem was in the starter. I took the starter out and bench tested it and it didnt do a damn thing. I smacked it with a hammer and the starter clicked but still wouldnt engage or turn. I took the solenoid off and found a little bit of corrosion ( white, not rust) on the actuator. I cleaned that up and put it back together and it worked properly.
I put it back in the boat and the boat started right up.
Diagnosing a bad starter isnt much more difficult than diagnosing a bad light bulb. I feel a bit dopey for it taking all this but the bad breaker through me way off.
No my questions are : If the starter engaged the first time i tried to start it, why would it trip the breaker? If the actuator in the solenoid was jammed, it seems odd that it would trip a 50A breaker. All it is is an electromagnet. The coil in the solenoid wasnt bad, the actuator was simply jammed.
I will likely just replace the starter in the spring. My biggest issue here was getting the boat to start so that i can winterize it properly.
Thank you so much for your help and input with this.

 

[alldodge]

If the starter engaged the first time i tried to start it, why would it trip the breaker? If the actuator in the solenoid was jammed, it seems odd that it would trip a 50A breaker. All it is is an electromagnet. The coil in the solenoid wasnt bad, the actuator was simply jammed.
I will likely just replace the starter in the spring. My biggest issue here was getting the boat to start so that i can winterize it properly.
Thank you so much for your help and input with this.

Typical starter wiring and note this isn't yours it uses a slave relay which is posted above, yours is the square but wiring is the same. This start only


If the starter solenoid shorted it "might" pop the breaker but in my opinion, it's upstream from the Bat. The breaker is there to protect from starter post to the motor wiring.

The 90 amp fuse "h" in most cases is between the 50A and alternator. The 90A fuse shouldn't be connected between but in most cases it is.

If the starter solenoid does not fully retract when energized it won't connect full power to the starter windings, so it may not spin. Same could happen if solenoid contacts are corroded internally

So back to the start wiring above. Find the square relay which has 2 Yel/Red wires, 1 Red/Pur wire and 1 Black wire connected to it. Remove the relay and jump the Red/Pur to Yel/Red contacts. This should engage the starter solenoid with key ON or OFF. It also bypasses the neutral safety switch

 

[ROY WILLIAMS]

the starter electrical motor did the water inside that boat . then the brushes of the holder and the armature ...
take it off and inspected it ....
I was my dc motors 50 yrs ago .....600dc -12 DC volts ..