Boat wakes

[Shawnee]

Hi all
I have lurked here a bit off and on over the years as questions arise, but been mostly able to find answers without actually asking. Forums like this are great!

But, now, a question. I have a 1999 Moomba Outback that is great. I have had it for about 8 years and when I got it, I planned on skiing more. I would be a low intermediate skiier (Can get up comfortably on one but form is poor) But life is changing and we are doing more tubing with friend's kids. I hate beating up the skiboat in the waves as I feel it is meant for smooth water, not the wakes that kids like for a thrilling ride on tubes in. The other thing we do is the slow evening tour around the lake.

I am thinking about changing up. I have read some of the debates about I/O's have less room and are quieter. Outboards, the opposite, but more awkward to get in and out of for swimmers. I realize everything is a trade off.

I am wondering about the wake for skiing though from either. Are some makes or models better at making a smaller wake than others. The rage these days seems to be wakeboarding and larger wakes. I am getting older and don't actually ski much but after being out on the weekend, I do love it. I am thinking about an 18' boat. (ish)

I plan on only 2-3 people in the boat for skiing and will trim as much as I can but looking at the used market, I see many boat makes I am not familiar with, although they look like they have been around for a while. So, don't know if some makes produce larger wakes than others? Should I be looking at boat weight instead of or in addition to motor horsepower? I am leaning towards a 150 hp if I go outboard.

How about I/O maintenance versus Outboard vs Inboard? I find the Inboard relatively easy to winterize. Oil changes are pretty easy too but have not done much past that. I do have a bad impression of I/O's meaning I think they are harder to work on when necessary.....

Any input?
Thanks, Shawn

 

[southkogs]

Outboards are gaining popularity again, and if you're buying new are pretty easy to get into. I've mostly had outboards, but my last two boats have been I/O's and I'm happy with both. I'm not sure that I see a huge difference between maintenance and even potential re-powers.

Tubing is about the same behind most any boat. I wouldn't buy a boat based on tubing (not that I think you were saying that). Skiing vs wakeboarding is a big difference. You've got the ski boat; and nothing in the outboard or I/O category is going to be a better wake than that. However many of the mainline family sport / cruise boats I/O or Outboard will do a decent job. My boat puts down a surprisingly nice table for skiing.

 

[briangcc]

In my case, the next boat is going to be outboard powered as I like the winterization process much better. That and I do miss my Honda 4 stroke.

I can comment on the tubing portion, you're only going up to 20mph (read your safety label) so you're not on plane, which translates to a decent wake....to send teeny boppers skipping across the water if that's your thing. And yes I've done just that with both I/O's and Outboard.

So for me it comes down to space in a boat which an I/O eats like there's no tomorrow. The tradeoff is you get a heck of a sunpad (depending on configuration).

**Never boated with a true inboard as I boat in waters with rock piles and stumps - places where a true inboard are NOT the boat of choice.

 

[Scott06]

I personally love I/Os vs OB for the clean swim platform and sun pad.

Some I/Os can bee really good for the intermediate skier my buddys Glastron 185/4.3 pops up on plane and has very little wake compared to my bigger sea ray 200. SO when we ski we take him boat, tubing and boarding we take my boat. With a V8 I have plenty of power (proped correctly) to have 5-6 in the boat and pull a skiier, tube or baorder

You may find a deeper V gives a better cruising ride vs the lower deadrise straight inboard when there are waves, at the expense of a bigger wake.

Annual maint on an OB is going to be easier than an I/O but I suspect that any significant repairs are just as much of a pita and cost. There was an interesting thread by MUC on cost of ownership and how much more the extended warranties are for newer OBs... obviously the manufacturer thinks it will cost more to maintain.

 

[KJM]

In my case, the next boat is going to be outboard powered as I like the winterization process much better. That and I do miss my Honda 4 stroke.

I can comment on the tubing portion, you're only going up to 20mph (read your safety label) so you're not on plane, which translates to a decent wake....to send teeny boppers skipping across the water if that's your thing. And yes I've done just that with both I/O's and Outboard.

So for me it comes down to space in a boat which an I/O eats like there's no tomorrow. The tradeoff is you get a heck of a sunpad (depending on configuration).

**Never boated with a true inboard as I boat in waters with rock piles and stumps - places where a true inboard are NOT the boat of choice.

Just out of curiosity, why are inboards not good in the waters you indicated? Just too big?

 

[Scott06]

Just out of curiosity, why are inboards not good in the waters you indicated? Just too big?

True inboard has prop below the hull takes up more water, I/O and OB can trim up

 

[ahicks]

It would need to be a 4 stroke outboard for me, on a 20' boat. Spoiled I guess, but the 18's don't feel as stable or as roomy as a 20 (even for 30-4 people). As far as noise level, I seriously can't imagine anything quieter than a 4 stoke O/B at idle or low cruise speeds (mostly Honda experience).

As far as wake boarding on that giant wake they create, as a long time lakefront resident, not a fan of those wakes. I could be wrong, but I understand that many of the better hulls use water ballast to increase weight/size of wakes?

A straight inboard is often about slalom skiing and they do just as well pulling tubes. This boat is about planing out very quickly and pulling the skier(s) out while it's at it. They can/will turn on a dime but they are rough riding in a chop. That evening putt around the lake is generally done best after the lake settles down for the evening and the pontoons take over....

And speaking of pontoons.....
I've been on our lake since '78. At that point, there were very few of them. Now, most of the ski boats have disappeared, and the pontoons have just about taken over. Many are even trailered in for daily use. Then there is this new generation a very high powered (250hp+/twins!) tri-toons with built in lift strakes. We have several on the lake now, and I think these guys are cracking 70mph with them. This with the same boat that is just about perfect for that evening put around the lake. The only thing they won't do (yet) is turn well. That's still ski boat turf.....

We had a ski boat and a pontoon boat for many years. Then I noticed the ski boat (a nice one, stored on a lift to keep it that way) was coming out of the lake in the fall with the same gas in the tank it went in with. After a couple of seasons like that, it was time to let somebody else take care of it. We've been a pontoon only family for quite some time now - though the pontoon can still pull the grand kids tubing easily with it's 90hp. -Al

 

[ahicks]

True inboard has prop below the hull takes up more water, I/O and OB can trim up

A light ski inboard can blast up on top without pulling 4-5' of water while getting up on plane (especially when pulling a skier). 3' is pretty safe for an inboard!

It's docking and very low speed maneuvering that takes some experience to handle well with a straight inboard.......

All of them can be expensive if you hit a rock, and I will admit that beaching a straight inboard might pull a little more water than an O/B or I/O that have been tilted up. I can't remember that being much of an issue though. You just have to be sure the prop is in open water before putting it in gear!

 

[briangcc]

Just out of curiosity, why are inboards not good in the waters you indicated? Just too big?

Hit a rock pile or submerged stump with a true inboard and you've bent the prop shaft and more than likely disabled steering. That doesn't sound like a fun way to fish....which is what we mainly do from our boat.

Has nothing to do with the size of the boat, everything to do with the propulsion system. that and the draft - it's not changeable.

Do the same with an I/O or Outboard and worse case for me is I now have a dinged up prop. I can unbeach my self, for the most part, by trimming the drive up.

 

[ahicks]

Hit a rock pile or submerged stump with a true inboard and you've bent the prop shaft and more than likely disabled steering. That doesn't sound like a fun way to fish....which is what we mainly do from our boat.

Has nothing to do with the size of the boat, everything to do with the propulsion system. that and the draft - it's not changeable.

Do the same with an I/O or Outboard and worse case for me is I now have a dinged up prop. I can unbeach my self, for the most part, by trimming the drive up.

I had straight inboards for 20 years, and though I'll admit you can destroy a prop, bend the shaft, and even bend the strut and rudder, but that would be darned unusual.

They'll more often ding a blade, or even knock a blade right off, with no shaft damage.

 

[briangcc]

Ok...since we're discussing this....

Draft on a Nautique boat, G21 as published, is 31.5". There's maybe 24" of water where I dock and fish.

Where am I gaining that extra depth? Answer is the prop and rudder are sitting on the bottom, which is typically rock. Bending something is gonna happen in this scenario. So as I said, they are NOT appropriate for my type of boating.

**My draft drive up is just over 12".

 

[Scott Danforth]

Hi all
.....But life is changing and we are doing more tubing with friend's kids. I hate beating up the skiboat in the waves as I feel it is meant for smooth water, ........ The other thing we do is the slow evening tour around the lake.

I am thinking about changing up.

I am wondering about the wake for skiing though from either. ......... I am thinking about an 18' boat. (ish)

I plan on only 2-3 people in the boat for skiing and will trim as much as I can but looking at the used market, I see many boat makes I am not familiar with, although they look like they have been around for a while. So, don't know if some makes produce larger wakes than others? Should I be looking at boat weight instead of or in addition to motor horsepower? I am leaning towards a 150 hp if I go outboard.

I would nail down what you want out of the boat

you can pull tubes behind almost anything including a pontoon boat

you can slow cruise behind almost anything including a pontoon boat

you can ski best behind a ski boat. However you can also ski behind boats with outboards and I/O/s

if you want a big wake, get a wake boat

if you want to wake surf, get a wake boat

pulling swimmers and skiers up is easier with a ladder.

 

[airshot]

I would nail down what you want out of the boat

you can pull tubes behind almost anything including a pontoon boat

you can slow cruise behind almost anything including a pontoon boat

you can ski best behind a ski boat. However you can also ski behind boats with outboards and I/O/s

if you want a big wake, get a wake boat

if you want to wake surf, get a wake boat

pulling swimmers and skiers up is easier with a ladder.

Sounds like you hit the nail on the head !!!!

 

[ahicks]

Ok...since we're discussing this....

Draft on a Nautique boat, G21 as published, is 31.5". There's maybe 24" of water where I dock and fish.

Where am I gaining that extra depth? Answer is the prop and rudder are sitting on the bottom, which is typically rock. Bending something is gonna happen in this scenario. So as I said, they are NOT appropriate for my type of boating.

**My draft drive up is just over 12".

Not that it's going to make a lot of difference in your scenario, but that G21 is ADVERTISED as being a little over 5800 pounds. Wet w/fuel pretty sure it'll be well over 6k...... That's a pretty big ski boat.

I was thinking of something a little smaller. This boat is a 21', weighs half of the one you mention, and has a 22" draft........

CorrectCraftFan Reference | Brochures

www.correctcraftfan.com

More conventional/typical boat I see here, would be something around 18-19' likely lighter w/shallower draft.....

 

[Scott06]

I would nail down what you want out of the boat

you can pull tubes behind almost anything including a pontoon boat

you can slow cruise behind almost anything including a pontoon boat

you can ski best behind a ski boat. However you can also ski behind boats with outboards and I/O/s

if you want a big wake, get a wake boat

if you want to wake surf, get a wake boat

pulling swimmers and skiers up is easier with a ladder.

Well said only thing to add is think about how you want to use it and cockpit layout becomes important. With two daughters and their friends the sun pad and swim platform cant be big enough .... and for me the beer cooler big enough. Most boats today have a cooler under the seat mine is in the passenger console so easy access...

 

[aspeck]

I would nail down what you want out of the boat

you can pull tubes behind almost anything including a pontoon boat

you can slow cruise behind almost anything including a pontoon boat

you can ski best behind a ski boat. However you can also ski behind boats with outboards and I/O/s

if you want a big wake, get a wake boat

if you want to wake surf, get a wake boat

pulling swimmers and skiers up is easier with a ladder.

Pretty much what I was going to say. A 4 stroke OB is quiet for the putt around the lake. Ladders are made every day for boats with no swim platform and you can get swim platforms for OBs as well. So it really comes down to what YOU want and are looking for in a boat and what YOU can afford.

I had a bass boat that my wife did not like ... she did not grow up around the water. I live close to a mile wide, 30 mile long lake with depths up to 195 feet. It can get pretty choppy with wake boats and big cruisers. I told her I would find her a boat we would both like at my price. We found it in a 10 year old dual console outboard (140hp). It fishes nice, takes waves nice, with a little modification can fit 7 comfortably for the cruises around the lake, and when I was skiing it popped out of the water fast and was a decent ski boat. Now the kids love to tube behind it and a 4 step ladder is difficult to store in the boat when not tubing, but sure makes it easy to get out of the water after a spectacular fall off the said tube.

All that to say, I like the 80% rule. What are you going to use the boat for 80% of the time. Get the boat for that. Don't get a boat for 20% of the usage. You will only be sorry 80% of the time that way.

 

[Stargazer1967]

In regards to outboard vs i/o, I've had both. Imho, the i/o has a few more items to consider, for instance, the bellows can develop leaks after a while, winterizing a touch more complex, at idle speeds boat tended to have "deep vee wonder " meaning it wants to kinda zigzag when trying to go straight, and a few other things. But most models do give a nice sun pad and a full swim platform. The out board does take up room on swim platform, if you get an older boat with 2 stroke, that motor can be noisy and a bit smoky and you would have to deal with 2 stroke oil. However I currently have a 21 foot bowrider with 4 stroke outboard, the space where i/o would have been was made storage area, swim platform is adequate to use, has boarding ladder, I still have full sunpad, outboard is whisper quiet, can't tell it's running at idle unless you look at instrument cluster or tell tale stream. Boat tracks straight at idle speeds. Good luck

 

[Shawnee]

Thanks for the input and conversation all. Always nice to hear opinions. As Scott pointed out, I need to nail down what I want to do with it but unfortunately, at this time, it is probably 33% of each....skiing, tubing and the scenic cruise.
I think I might sit tight for a year, try to ski more, and when pulling tubes, be a little less aggressive. The kids will probably still enjoy the rides and maybe I can find a happy medium where I am not beating up the skiboat, but the kids are still happy.
Last year, I was still running the previous year's gas too, (ie we don't use it much) as was pointed out, however not because we have another boat, but rather, we are just a boring old couple. When friends are down, that is usually the catalyst to do something in the boat.
I will try to look better at the boats on the lake and maybe try to ski behind some. We are on a small lake but there is a range in models/styles from my ski boat, I/O's, 150 and smaller outboards, etc so with a few beers in hand, I should be able to buy a few skiis or trade experiences. Sounds like a good way to spend a summer.
Thanks
Cheers,
Shawn

 

[Scott Danforth]

FWIW.... For pulling tubes, putting around, fishing, swimming, diving, golfing etc. I would get a tritoon with one or two big outboards and a front mounted swim ladder

 

[harringtondav]

My $.02. I recently upgraded from my I/O after 24 yrs. I was looking hard at O/Bs as a replacement ...mainly for winterization simplification. I'm getting too old to squeeze into the engine compartment.
But I bought another I/O. Outboard boats were consistently much more expensive than their I/O counterpart HP to HP. They also had a lower HP offering than the I/O version. I bought a VP 4.3 which has HX closed cooling and a reliable single point raw water dump for winterization....although I need to muff flush the raw water side with 2 gal of pink juice.
I/O's have always given a good ski pull for our family and friends. Trim and open bow passenger loading tamed the wake.
Also my family would have disowned me if I didn't get a nice swim platform.