been a lurker, but need some help asap.. please :)

[voodoochikin]

quick background. 1990 bayliner capri, 90hp force outboard 2stroke. ran fine all last year, I winterized it (fogging oil in cylinders, stabil in the gas) but i didnt run the stabil gas into the engine. (first time winterizing a boat-read as naive)..

so I took the boat to the water yesterday. I didnt add new gas cause it had a 1/4 tank yet. Get boat in water and crank and crank. It finally starts but revs to full throttle while in neutral!!! everytime I start it, it just winds up as high as it can go until I shut the key off. I have no clue why this is happening. Nothing on the linkages should have changed, I didnt touch anything on the engine. Everything appears to be moving like it should.

I couldnt find ANYTHING on google about anyone having this issue. My thoughts were that that gas might have issues from sitting for 4months, even with the stabil. The carbs might be plugged from having untreated gas sitting in them? The engine is running lean??

This is really bothering me as nothing was messed with or changed from when I parked it. PLEASE HELP..

 

[CoffeeHound]

Re: been a lurker, but need some help asap.. please

Have you lifted the motor hood and actually checked if your linkage is hooked up -- working properly ?
Watched it go from full throttle to idle when operated from the control box ?

 

[voodoochikin]

Re: been a lurker, but need some help asap.. please

yes sir. First thing I did after it fired and revved up was pull the cowl off and checked everything. Everything looks fine. Everything moves as it should. Nothing appears bound up or stuck or slipped. I just dont understand how without being touched all winter, it goes from running fine, to this..

 

[JB]

Re: been a lurker, but need some help asap.. please

This is really bothering me as nothing was messed with or changed from when I parked it.

Seems pretty obvious that something changed, chikin. You didn't change it, but time or rodents can make big changes. Take CoffeeHound's advice.

And, by the way, you would get much more and better response with a better title. Look here: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=250874

 

[bentle]

Re: been a lurker, but need some help asap.. please

Verify if the inner butterflies in the carbs are open or closed.
If they are open then either the throttle linkage is stuck or possible the throttle cable may be broke and needs replacing. Either add to or drain the old gas and start with fresh 50:1mix for your motor, but this may not be your problem because it sounds cable linkage related.

 

[voodoochikin]

Re: been a lurker, but need some help asap.. please

to JB--- what do you mean take coffee hounds advice? I have pulled the "hood" off and checked that everything is moving correctly. All the cables are moving. nothing is bound up. As far as rodents, there is no signs of chewed wires, nesting or any rodent traces in there. I know time does make differences, it has been 4months (winter-very mild) since I pulled it from the water. When I said nothing has changed, I mean I have not changed ANYTHING, and no one else has changed anything either. thanks!! (how do i change the title now?)


to bentle--- the butterflys move accordingly with moving into full throttle. they close like they should. the choke works as is should. all cables are moving freely. nothing appears to be not moving when it should. nothing appears to be broken cablewise. Im just not sure what else to check. I pulled the plugs this morning and none of them are white or greyish at all (indicating a lean condition)..

so im stuck. I really appreciate that fast replies.

 

[voodoochikin]

Re: been a lurker, but need some help asap.. please

edit option wouldnt work.. meant to say "the butterflies open and close like they should"

i hope my posts dont come across as brasche.. Im just trying to get ideas as to what could be wrong, or what I should be checking, as well as explaining what ive checked and what ive looked at. Im actually at my camper at the lake right now, So i can take the boat to the water.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: been a lurker, but need some help asap.. please

Well, just how high is high? If the engine were revving with fully opened carb butterflies it would self-destruct in a very few seconds.

If you are starting it correctly with the shift disengaged and the throttle handle pushed as far forward as it will go, the engine should reach 1500-2000 RPM in neutral. To the ear this sounds very high, even though the engine will turn much higher in gear (4500-5500). Note that in neutral it only takes cracking open the butterflies and advancing the timing a few degrees to acheive 2000 RPM. Thus, anything that sticks the throttles open slightly WILL cause high revs. On older Chrysler engines, if the distributor drive belt was too tight, this could happen.

Unless butterflies are open and timing advanced, or there is a massive air leak it is not possible for the engine to over-rev.

 

[voodoochikin]

1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

quick background. 1990 bayliner capri, 90hp force outboard 2stroke. ran fine all last year, I winterized it (fogging oil in cylinders, stabil in the gas) but i didnt run the stabil gas into the engine. (first time winterizing a boat-read as naive)..

so I took the boat to the water yesterday. I didnt add new gas cause it had a 1/4 tank yet. Get boat in water and crank and crank. It finally starts but revs to full throttle while in neutral!!! everytime I start it, it just winds up as high as it can go until I shut the key off. I have no clue why this is happening. Nothing on the linkages should have changed, I didnt touch anything on the engine. Everything appears to be moving like it should.

I couldnt find ANYTHING on google about anyone having this issue. My thoughts were that that gas might have issues from sitting for 4months, even with the stabil. The carbs might be plugged from having untreated gas sitting in them? The engine is running lean??

Ive physically checked all the cables, and verified that all are moving correctly. Ive checked the butterflies in the carbs and verified that they open and close when they should. I have not found any evidence of rodents in the engine area, no chewed wires, nests or fur. Also No-one has made any physical changes to the engine or cables while it has sat over the winter. any ideas?

 

[voodoochikin]

Re: been a lurker, but need some help asap.. please

I started a new thread with a correct title.. please ignore/ delete this thread.

refer to my new correct thread please.:

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=550169&p=3777386#post3777386


frank-- I replied to your post in my new correct thread.

 

[voodoochikin]

Re: 1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

Re: 1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

To add a little more- I do not have a tach so I cannot verify how high the engine revs, but while in neutral with the control arm not pushed forward, right when the engine fires it revs very high ( sounds like full throttle to me) until I shut it off with the key. this happens while the carb butterflies are closed like they should be at idle in neutral. im lost.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: 1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

Re: 1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

Just a thought till the better informed chime in. Check the plastic connection that adjusts for the timing. It may have broken or stripped allowing the timing to advance.

 

[voodoochikin]

Re: 1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

Re: 1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

ran out and took a look. doesnt look stripped. When the throttle is moved forward, the levers and arms move and appears to advance the timing correctly, everything is tight. (maybe im not looking at the correct part?)

 

[foodfisher]

Re: 1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

Re: 1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

Not sure about yours but mine is two little black ball like connections w/a threaded piece between them. The gap is about 3/8 to 1/2 inch.

 

[voodoochikin]

Re: 1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

Re: 1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

yup thats what mine is like too. and the gap is about the same as yours.


I ran the idle air mix screws all the way in, and back out to the 3/4 turn they were previously at. Hoping this will clear any clogs that may have been in there.

Also- im afraid to run it here with the muffs on, because I was told that if its a lean condition causing this, the engine may develop a hot spot and not shut off when i turn the key off. I dont want that to happen and then have it overheat because not enough water getting to it.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: 1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

Re: 1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

Highly "Not" recommended but you could try overiding the neutral safety switch and start it in gear, just to see if you have any throttle control at all. I'm at a lose now and starting to go under the flywheel.Good luck

 

[voodoochikin]

Re: 1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

Re: 1990 90hp force outboard, revs to full throttle in netraul at idle!!

well I put 6.5 gallons of fresh gas and oil in. Im gonna take it down to the lake and tie it to the dock and see what happens. I guess I could always try playing with the idle screw, but like i said: everything was just like it was when I pulled it last from the water and it was running great. If I dont get anywhere today, Ill just have to take it to a shop.

 

[jerryflah]

How do I SET the high idle when starting cold without engaging the transmission I

How do I SET the high idle when starting cold without engaging the transmission I

I have an older Force 125 that I haven't started for a while. I've forgotten how to set the high Idle when clod starting without engaging the transmission. Please help. Thanks in advance:redface:

 

[voodoochikin]

Re: How do I SET the high idle when starting cold without engaging the transmission

Re: How do I SET the high idle when starting cold without engaging the transmission

update. I took it down to the lake. It started right up, and instantly revved up very high. I was able to keep the idle down by continuously clicking the choke. The exhaust had alot of smoke in it. After a solid minute of it running at high revs, and another 3-4 minutes of me controlling the idle... the engie was barely warm to the touch. In my past experience, a lean engine heats up fast and hot. Also, I tried adjusting the single idle speed screw to set the idle rpms, but it didnt make a different wheather I backed it all the way out or not. I let it run at it high revs and shut it down, then pulled a spark plug and it was clean as a whistle. So im lost still.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: How do I SET the high idle when starting cold without engaging the transmission

Re: How do I SET the high idle when starting cold without engaging the transmission

Understand a couple of basic things: ANY internal combustion engine is really just a simple air pump. The more air it pumps, the more fuel it can burn, and the more horsepower it can generate.

There is no magic to it: With throttle butterflies closed the engine simply can not get enough air to over-rev. However, in neutral there is no load at all and it only takes butterflies to be cracked open and timing advanced a couple of degrees to get enough air to rev-up quite high. Quit fooling with the mixture needles. You are liable to damage the engine.

SO: You are looking for throttles and timing tower being held from closing fully for whatever reason, or a massive air leak due to loose carbs or broken gaskets.