Axis of Weasels

[NOSLEEP]

There seems to be a lot of opinions relating<br />to this topic floating around in the newspapers<br />lately . How do you feel about France ,Germany's<br />stance on this no support thing. And what do you<br />intend to do about it personally if anything.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Axis of Weasels

I think that inspections should be given more time, but we have to be clear what the outcome should be. The fact is that there is no clear account of where the stockpile of chemical and biological weapons have gone and that should trouble everyone. I heard somewhere that there are three Iraqi ships that left an Iraqi harbor the day the inspectors arrived and that they are maintaining radio silence and crusiseing aroudn the gulf. I say take some inspectors and form a boarding party. I feel that GW is rushing into war too fast and further making world opinion go against the US. There does need to be time for inspections, but there does have to be a limit. We should put more force on France and Germany to give a specific date when enough is enough. Iraq has to come up with evidence or documentation that they destroyed the chem/bio weapons period.<br />In addition, France and Germany have to agree that if the inspectors find weapons, that does not mean that the inspections should continue because they are "working", but it shows that Iraq is lying and is in breach. As far as some missiles being 15 miles or so too long of a range is not enough of an argument. The missiles should be destroyed.<br /><br />I think people need ot lay off the France rifle dropping comments. That was over 50 years ago. While I would not deny anyone that fought in WWII the right to say whatever they feel, it is a fact that France is part of the UN and the security council and should have a say it what happens whether they agree with us or not. There were a lot of French people that fought bravely in WWII and were betrayed by their own governments decisions and weakness. I can say that I personally have not liked a lot of the decisions that the French government has made and is making currently. Anyone has a right to criticze that. <br /><br />I can say I do not like George W's way of dealing with foreign policy. It is like trying to remove a hornets nest from under your eves by wacking it with a stick. Sure, you will get the nest down, but you sure have a lot of angry hornets looking to sting you and they don't forget easily.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Axis of Weasels

perhaps they are taking advantage of the fact our<br />economy is in the dumper? the European union does<br />provide stability financially, but who they gonna<br />call when they need help milataraly? not each other IMHO.<br />my .02<br />M.Y.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Axis of Weasels

In have always wondered how the EU was going to survive. The countries in it are so different. It seems that they are having to legislate the color of the sky so they all agree.<br /><br />There is a story I read out of a Britsih newspaper that told how some swings in a park were going to be torn down because they were too high or too low. The EU actually has rules on that. How are the old Eastern block countries going to survive? From no standards to the police measuring the length of your grass (Ok the grass thing was made up, but the swingset ruling is 100% true.)

 

[ob]

Re: Axis of Weasels

The inspections are a joke.The very reason that we have inspectors in Iraq is to appease the UN's weak will and because Iraq can't be trusted.If we have to constantly carry out arms inspections of these terrorist regimes then they need to be abolished.It amazes me that so many are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to so many that would cut your throat if given the opportunity.<br /> A WWII patriot put it best.The day we forget the reason that untold numbers of our countries people gave their lives to defend the US and the free world against oppressive regimes is the day that they truly gave their lives in vain.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Axis of Weasels

Greetings,<br /><br />I hear a lot of folks saying that GW is "rushing to war." Hmmmmmm. If my math is correct, Saddam has had 12 years to disarm. The reason inspections have been unsuccessful IMHO has a lot more to do with Bill Clinton than GW. Who was president during the time when the international coalition fell apart and lost effectiveness in dealing with Saddam to the point that he kicked the inspectors out of Iraq and the UN did nothing in responce, other than to continue to relax the embargo? That was Bill Clinton. It was his tax and spend legislation that gutted the strongest US economy in history. GW is NOT perfect, but he is not responsible for everything wrong with America. That honour is reserved for idiots like Robert Kennedy Jr, Barbara Streisand (sp?) and the Clinton Administration.

 

[dkondelik]

Re: Axis of Weasels

Re. Frecnh rifles. Libia-Airspace. F-111's<br /><br />Re. 1441. The inspectors are to verify the DOCUMENTED disaramament of Iraq. else,.... in material breach....<br /><br />Nowhere did 1441 call for inspectors to SEARCH for ANYTHING.<br /><br />1441 however did clearly state that ANY MATERIAL BREACH WILL BE ACTED UPON WITH SERIOUS ....(implied miltary action).<br /><br />Of course, the UN needs to have an excuse for enabling world crimes. (League of Nations mean anything to you?) How better to pull a Neville Chamberlain then to succumb to the week need frogs<br /><br />AS per world opinion agains the US. You listen to too much Dan Blather. 13 of 16 Nato nations are on board and supporting, as are many former soviet block countries and Several of the Mid East.<br /><br />Need to double-re-confirmyour sources.<br /><br />EU Economic Power?????<br />Japan has the second largest economy in the world> By the way, the economy of California is larger then that of Japan.<br />EU? Economy? Ha haha. They're in the tank with no light at the end of the tunnel. The only way the EU will survive (economically) is if they close their borders to all but EU trade.<br /><br />Don't see more inspectors/time as a serious anything but a joke.<br /><br />Fail to learn from history, destined to repeat it!

 

[SCO]

Re: Axis of Weasels

A few things are evident. 1- the French and Germans are completely ingenuous. How can they lose here. They know Bush will go to war, and by crying right now, they can minimize their risk and expenditure regardless of whether they privately think Iraq should be taken or not. I think however that they have miscalculated or did not consider just how disgusted we would be with them. 2- We're not a part of the EU, and they have a different agenda than we. I think it is a devestating precedent that is(was) being developed that a UN led approach is required for the US to take action. We were attacked, not them, and they are not going to stick their necks out for us. We gave it a shot at multilateral, and we've been sold out. I'll not buy French or German wine, won't be driving a Peugeot or BMW, and am going to order Freedom Fries from now on. BTW , I saw the frontline presentation last night. With their sinister music, snaggletoothed photos of Cheney etc, talk of hawks, I surmized that the presentation probably made 98% of Hollywood liberals quake in their boots.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Axis of Weasels

I remember when the Gulf War occured that it was a matter of days when the Saddam's troops were surrendering.<br /><br />I think alot of people who are scared *hitless of what can happen will be surprised when we roll. I think the Iraq people will turn on Saddam once they know he has no power. Those people live in fear of him plain and simple.<br /><br />The negative anti-American crap that is going on is only feeding to the needs of Saddam. I wish the media that is pro America would not report the protestors. It may be their right to protest, but there is no law saying it has to be broadcast.<br /><br />I look at this situation similar to a football game. Your team is getting ready to go up against a team that is the best. You don't wish your team not to go because of fear your players are gonna get hurt and lose.<br /><br />Americans should have their opinion, but geeish support your country when it needs it most. Don't doubt it. ........SS

 

[NOSLEEP]

Re: Axis of Weasels

Scoop <br />The biggest mistake Bush has made so far in his<br />policy's on Iraq and terrorism, Is to allow world<br />opinion to slow down and debate his policies. He<br />has taken a hard line approach to the enemies of<br />the united states. And in his approach to appease<br />world opinion has allowed outside opinion to slow<br />the big machine down. But the machine will not <br />be stopped by pacifists and those that fear<br />reprisals from the enemy. Best not to wait and <br />see if they really do hate you. They already do!<br />They are soft spoken now because they are under<br />the microscope, and some say see... they are not<br />really hiding any thing. They just need more <br />time. Stalin just needed a little more time .<br />lots of people were against invading Afghanistan<br />but 9/11 was fresh so there voices went unheard.<br />Time is your enemy don't waist it.<br /><br />Mellowyellow<br />I don't think your economy is in a dump. It was <br />artificially inflated recently. Just the air got <br />let out a bit. Not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[plywoody]

Re: Axis of Weasels

There are lots of good reasons that France objects to this war.<br /><br />First, that the threat France faces is from Alqaida, and not saddam.<br /><br />France has something like 6 million Islamics in their country, and they fear a polarization of these in their country, and an increased threat.<br /><br />Saddam is pretty well in a box now, his strength is a fraction of what it was in 1991 due to sanctions and what have you and could not launch any sort of credible attack on anyone--especially when inspectors are in place, we have U-2 flights, as well as a myriad of other safeguards intelligence that can keep tabs on him and keep safeguards in place.<br /><br /> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/14/opinion/14LEVI.html?th <br /><br />It is an unfair criticism of the French that they are somehow cowards. The French are in Afghanistan in great numbers, and have been an active participant in that action.<br /><br />Bush has simply not made his case, certainly not in Europe because he has not even tried up till now, that Saddam poses an imminent threat.<br /><br />On top of that, it is not terribly surprising that the Europeans are not thrilled with this administration generally. He has thumbed his nose at Europe ever since he took office.<br /><br />He abruptly backed out of the Kyoto treaty, the ABM treaty, the world court, and imposed restrictive trade barriers on European products (notably steel, but there are others)<br /><br />On top of that, we have clearly shown our committment to helping out when we vanquish a nation by our example in Afghanistan. How much was in our new budget to specifically help Afghanistan rebuild? The answer is zero. They did hurriedly put back in 300 million, but 300 million is simply a drop in the bucket. We are offering Turkey something close to 30 billion just to stage troops there.<br /><br />The French government have to have the best interests of the french people in the forefront, and it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that to the French, Bush's policy is like taking a baseball bat to a hornet's nest.<br /><br />Iraq has zero history of democracy, and anyone thinking a democracy is going to break out over there all of a sudden is looking though tinted glasses, I think.<br /><br />I do not doubt in the least that we will be able to defeat Saddam in short order. I would expect him to have wired his oil fields and blow them upon his demise, and I think it may not quite be as easy as some think, but still it will happen. No question.<br /><br />The real danger comes about in the post war period, and we will have to fundamentally change our way of doing things if it is to be successful.<br /><br />I don't think the French are convinced that will happen. Neither am I.

 

[DJ]

Re: Axis of Weasels

Plywoody,<br /><br />I believe you are right about Saddam being in a box. I also think that there are few things more dangerous than a madman in a corner. <br /><br />I do not think we are going to let the oil fields go up. I believe they will be nuetralized before the first jet takes off.<br /><br />GW has shunned much of the western Europeans because of their policies. <br /><br />The sad part about the Kyoto treaty is that it only puts restrictions on developed countries-namely us. The third worlders can pump as much garbage and toxic waste into the environment as they want in the name of "fairness". That is a recipe for disaster. We're, just now, finding the environmental atrocities of the former USSR, including nuclear.<br /><br />You're right, the French have cause to be concerned because of their population mix. However, I also believe we are going to find some things in Iraq that will embarrass the French.

 

[ob]

Re: Axis of Weasels

If the Frenchs' best interest is in the people of their country then why do you suppose that they have allowed 6 million Islamics to enter and settle in their country and now fear that they will dictate by polarization their administrations decision to back US efforts.If that's looking out for their best interests then count me out as a prospective American immigrant to France.Maybe we also need to keep a close eye on France if your numbers are correct since they haven't got the guts or insight to police their own country of jihad sypathizers.Perhaps the Islamics can show them how to convert the Eiffel Tower into a scud launcher.It already looks like an oil rig.

 

[plywoody]

Re: Axis of Weasels

A leader engages countries and tries to lead them to his position, if that position has merit.<br />Shunning them, be it Europe, or Israel and Palestine, or North Korea, or wherever you may pick, because you dislike their policies, is not likely to resolve anything, and more than likely to cause ill-will.<br /><br />As far as third world countries being exempt from the Kyoto treaty, frankly, it makes sense to me. On a proportional basis, I don't think there is any doubt that the G-7 countries put out a disproportionate amount of the greenhouse gasses--On top of that, clearly the overwhelming power for world change that this country possesses is economic and not military. Part of the strategy for securing peace and security in the world is lifting up these third world countries economically, and sometimes compromises are necessary. It is not feasible, or realistic, for example, to establish our minimum wage laws and our living standard immediately to Bangladesh, for example. But economic growth in the third world, however slow it may be, can only help lift everyone up, including us, and make the world a more stable place. It won't happen overnight, of course, and it probably will not be without setbacks, but it is important.<br />Demanding that they meet this standard of emissions at the start is like putting an anvil around their neck. Implement the changes slowly as they progress. The net result will be positive and improving, if not perfect from the start.<br />If the argument against Kyoto is that global warming is a myth, which some ascribe to, engage them and convince them of the scientific validity of that postion.<br />But to simply disengage is not a strategy worthy of this nation, IMO. <br />And it makes people, and countries, angry.

 

[jee70611]

Re: Axis of Weasels

Here is my stance on this issue.<br /><br />Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the French government have approximately a $50 billion oil deal with Iraq? Then if he Saddam is ousted that contract will be nullified? The French have, throughout history, waited until the last minute to jump on board. Then they brown nose the party winning. I personally could care less what France thinks. I believe that 12 years is plenty of time for him to comply. Also, if you saw Colin Powell's Speech at the UN last Friday, Resolution 1441 wasn't about inspections. It was about COMPLIANCE. He has presented very compelling evidence that Saddam is playing games with the world. If the inspections were to work in any way they would have to be FULLY UNSUPERVISED. A person would have to be pretty naive to believe that the inspections can work with the way he is restricting them. He is also telling us that we have to tell him when and where are spy planes are flying overhead. DUUUHH! If I told you in advance that I was gonna come over at an exact time to see if you had drugs in your car(and you did), don't you think you would hide them first. How naive are these anti-war protestors?!? Furthermore, people are claiming that Bush is after this for oil. That would make no sense economically. He has oil reserves in this country and if he wanted to gain anything out of it he would put extremely high tariffs on imported oil. (insert sarcasm here)DUUUHH!!(end sarcasm). The main reason gas is going up is because of the Venuzuelan oil strike. I'm sure some of the stations are dipping in for a little price gouging as well. Some people are saying, "lets just give peace a chance." HA!!, where have they been these past 12 years. I think that is more than enough time for attempting peace with this maniac. What even aggrivates me more is that these people who are out there doing this probrably don't have anything better to do. Most of them, not all, are probrably mouching off of mine and most other hard working americans' paychecks. I believe that most of the people in this country support the war. We just don't have enough time to really show it due to us having to work day in and day out to feed these bleeding heart liberals who are like a virus to our society . If the UN isn't going to enforce its mandates then what good is it anyway? I fully support the war. If it means that I have to go over there I will. I'm sick and tired of all these jealous good-for-nothings putting my country down. We, as americans, should stand UNITED or we will certainly face the same doom as ancient Rome. "For ye who cannot remember his past is condemned to repeat it." (Can't remember source) If I EVER catch ANYONE doing anything derogatory to our SOLDIERS when they come home, such as spitting on them, I will personally beat the living @#$% out of them. That is the ultimate disrepect. <br /><br />"THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot(those who only join for the money or school) will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the LOVE and THANKS of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated."<br /><br />Thomas Paine - The Crisis<br /><br />Parts in parenthesis I added to emphasize those who would turn on their country in their own selfishness.<br /><br />I have ceased to purchase Evian (just coincidently spells NAIVE backwards ) or any other French and German products. I will stand my ground to defend my views; and, if necessary, this GREAT COUNTRY. <br /><br />James Elrod<br />A VERY PROUD AMERICAN!!!

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Axis of Weasels

That part about Turkey asking for $30 Billion, and now they say they want even more to allow our troops to be there is totaly rediculous.. I say, Let the Turkish fend for themselves if they don't wish to play the game...<br /><br /> I would just assume the Turkish Government would just say "Thank You U.S.A., for sending troops to protect us and taking care of buisness with this mad man Saddam" thereby reducing a threat to Turkey, instead of milking the U.S. for some extra cash to boost their economy.. Who's gonna boost ours if the need were to arise? Certainly not Turkey... <br /><br />Talk about Weasels... Cheeze Whiz...

 

[12Footer]

Re: Axis of Weasels

I would like to take credit for the following post, but I cannot. It is copy/pasted from an email ssent to me by my wife. It begins to express my feelings towards the French Government.<br />The French people are being led by nose rings by thier socialist administration.<br /><br />Considering the recent resistance from France, I thought this rather appropriate!<br /><br />Subject: The Complete Military History of France <br /><br />A brief history lesson. Viva laFrance! <br /><br />THE COMPLETE MILITARY HISTORY OF FRANCE <br /><br />-- Gallic Wars - Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian. <br /><br />-- Hundred Years War - Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." <br /><br />-- Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians. <br /><br />-- Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots. <br /><br />-- Thirty Years War - France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her. <br /><br />-- War of Devolution - Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux. <br /><br />-- The Dutch War - Tied. <br /><br />-- War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War - Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power. <br /><br />-- War of the Spanish Succession - Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since. <br /><br />-- American Revolution - In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting." <br /><br />-- French Revolution - Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French. <br /><br />-- The Napoleonic Wars - Lost. Temporary victories <br /><br />(remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer. <br /><br />-- The Franco-Prussian War - Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night. <br /><br />-- World War I - Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of ******s by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline. <br /><br />-- World War II - Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song. <br /><br />-- War in Indochina - Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu. <br /><br />-- Algerian Rebellion - Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux. <br /><br />-- War on Terrorism - France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Axis of Weasels

I personally do not care what the French think, but said they are allowed their opinion and a vote. Do I think Clinton, the US and the rest of the world screwed up when Saddam kicked the inpectors out? Yes. Do I fear reprisals of other groups?, No, but this is a chance for the UN to either prove its worth or be disbanded. No one has proved Iraq is an immediate threat. As I said, France and Germany need to be forced to give a date. Either Iraq complies or they do not. That should have happened the first time inspectors were kicked out. I am sick of Iraq's games as much or more than most people, but if we act like we act like we are the king of all countries, then we have no right to ask why other countries hate us. Heck, how many countries like France and it policies?

 

[SCO]

Re: Axis of Weasels

You all are making this way too complicated. French/German interests are different that ours. We cant be directed away from our own interests by foreign disinterested powers. If we can't even counter the flagrent threat of Iraq , were lost. Keeping in a box allows him to prevail and continue his war against us . That eventuality is unacceptable. Quit worrying about what they are going to do to us, and lets think what we can do to them. They will do what they can to us regardless, and be more powerfull and bold if we are impotent after 911. The French can roll over because we bail them out. Whose going to bail us out if we roll over?

 

[dkondelik]

Re: Axis of Weasels

Plywoody ol' boy,<br /><br />Your passion is obvious (if not misguided).<br />Please familiarize your self with 1441 BEFORE further elaboration on the roll of inspections.<br /><br />You will see that the UN clearly states that the inspectors are to CONFIRM the documented destruction of So-Damn-Insane's wepons. Not to try and find them.<br /><br />strange concept?,..Words Mean Things!