Are there any good alternatives to Epoxy Resin for boat deck?

[ERock82]

I am building a new boat deck with exterior treated plywood and am on a tight budget. Epoxy resin is VERY expensive and I would need about 3-4 gallons (small boat). I have read that Polyester Resin does not adhere good to plywood. I have also heard someone mention using oil based paint to paint the treated plywood and then be able to use a smaller amount of the epoxy keeping cost way down. Another idea I thought of was using some Thompson's water seal on the bottom and then just use the epoxy for the top, sides and fiberglass mat. Could someone please tell me if the paint idea or water sealer idea would work and if there are any other alternatives? Please don't tell me that I need to just DEAL with the cost of 4 gallons of epoxy bc I know there has to be other ways and it is out of my budget. I don't need the floor to last 10-20 years either. I will probably upgrade in 5 or 6 years. Thanks!

 

[tpenfield]

Tell us about the 'exterior treated plywood' . . . Do you mean 'pressure treated' plywood?

what you read is that pressure treated plywood tends to be 'wet' when first produced and needs to dry out for considerable time (months) before anything (anything) will stick to it.

so, the epoxy is not going to do the trick either.

Poly resin is fine for regular plywood and dried PT plywood. Epoxy is typically not needed. Vinyl Ester resin is better than poly, but less costly than epoxy.

If you seal the wood, then the resin has nothing to 'grab' onto. . . . bad idea.

so, let us know what wood you are using and then things might be sorted out quickly.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Poly is fine. who told you poly doesnt adhere. in either case, you will need a layer or two of mat. the resin by itself is not a good idea.

paint and water sealer eventually fail.

however my number one question is why are you replacing the deck? what is the condition of your stringers?

edit - Ted's a faster typist than I am.

 

[ERock82]

Thanks for the responses.

Here is a link to the wood I was thinking of:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_602851-152-124PCCECO_1z0w69n+1z10t8c__

Now, I haven't bought anything yet so I can get whatever wood you guys think is best. I need 1/2" thickness. I read that exterior plywood is best but everything I saw on Lowes.com and HomeDepot.com said pressure treated for 1/2". The only other ones I saw were indoor sanded plywood. I want to avoid marine plywood bc of costs. If you guys can direct me to a good plywood type (maybe with link) that is under $40 a sheet that would be great.

I am replacing the deck bc of soft spots and delamination. I took core samples on the stringers and they both look good.

 

[tpenfield]

Lowes and HD will have the regular Exterior grade plywood. the stuff you gave the link to says 'pressure treated'. So you can assume it will need to be dried out for a while (months). the regular exterior grade can get you going right away, if that is a requirement. PT wood is nice as it will not rot if it absorbs water.

Look for the APA rating stamp on the plywood . . .

'Exposure 1' = Not so good for the boat

'Exterior' = fine for the bat

'Marine' = great for the boat.

so, your best bet might be exterior and just try to get the best exterior grade they have . .

 

[ERock82]

Lowes and HD will have the regular Exterior grade plywood. the stuff you gave the link to says 'pressure treated'. So you can assume it will need to be dried out for a while (months). the regular exterior grade can get you going right away, if that is a requirement. PT wood is nice as it will not rot if it absorbs water.

Look for the APA rating stamp on the plywood . . .

'Exposure 1' = Not so good for the boat

'Exterior' = fine for the bat

'Marine' = great for the boat.

so, your best bet might be exterior and just try to get the best exterior grade they have . .

Is this good? My current deck is 1/2". I couldn't find that thickness on the site. Will it make a difference using 15/32"?

http://www.lowes.com/pd_12227-99899..._product_qty_sales_dollar|1&page=1&facetInfo=

 

[Woodonglass]

What kind of boat is this? How old is she? How big of motor? How is it used? How is it stored? What's your expectations for longevity? Got any Pics? Lots of methods for doing lots of things. It all depends on what you REALLY want to get out of your efforts. Thompsons is NOT a good idea for Anything!!!! Paint WILL work and last several years if you maintain the boat well and keep her covered at all times when not in use. Got an uncle with a Painted Plywood wood boat that's 40 years old and she works just Fine!!! No Epoxy or Resin of anykind on her. She's not even cared for that well. Leaned up against the barn with a oil soaked canvas tarp thrown over her. Prolly got 20 coats of paint on her!!!! If you have a tendency to abuse your boat and get her wet a lot and keep her wet then you're gunna need to seal her up really well. If not then lot's of other methods come into play. We here on the forum have a tendency to "Over KILL" a lot of things. I'm as guilty as anyone of this. If you're just wanting a utility fishing boat and wanting it to last a few years Knowing that you'll have to do it again later or move on to another boat then yeah, you can use a lot less expensive and time consuming methods and still be safe and sound with your build. Post up some pics and show us what your're working on and tell us exactly what you're trying to acheive. That's this Old Dumb Okies thoughts.

 

[ERock82]

What kind of boat is this? How old is she? How big of motor? How is it used? How is it stored? What's your expectations for longevity? Got any Pics? Lots of methods for doing lots of things. It all depends on what you REALLY want to get out of your efforts. Thompsons is NOT a good idea for Anything!!!! Paint WILL work and last several years if you maintain the boat well and keep her covered at all times when not in use. Got an uncle with a Painted Plywood wood boat that's 40 years old and she works just Fine!!! No Epoxy or Resin of anykind on her. She's not even cared for that well. Leaned up against the barn with a oil soaked canvas tarp thrown over her. Prolly got 20 coats of paint on her!!!! If you have a tendency to abuse your boat and get her wet a lot and keep her wet then you're gunna need to seal her up really well. If not then lot's of other methods come into play. We here on the forum have a tendency to "Over KILL" a lot of things. I'm as guilty as anyone of this. If you're just wanting a utility fishing boat and wanting it to last a few years Knowing that you'll have to do it again later or move on to another boat then yeah, you can use a lot less expensive and time consuming methods and still be safe and sound with your build. Post up some pics and show us what your're working on and tell us exactly what you're trying to acheive. That's this Old Dumb Okies thoughts.

Hey thanks man for the advice. So, I am definitely dropping the water seal idea. I may end up doing this:

Buy "regular sanded plywood" (see above link on previous post) and apply Poly resin to it (3-4gals) and fiberglass all edges and water prone areas.

I don't have any pics to post atm. It is a 14' Bayliner Capri with an outboard. I hope to have her 5 more years...maybe more depending if I need more room then.

 

[ERock82]

So here is what I am thinking about the deck repair for materials: Still need to make more measurements so these are just estimates.

1.) 2 sheets of non treated indoor plywood
2.) 3 gallons of polyresin
3.) 3 sq yards of 1.5 oz Chopped strand fiberglass mat. (for edges and water prone areas only)
4.) 2x4 lumber material for seat base sides built on top of completed deck (leftover plywood for tops of bases) All will have resin and edges of base sides that touch deck will be fiberglassed to deck.
5.) 1 gallon of foam. (only the first foot or 2 is wet from stern going up). I plan on ripping up that section and reuing the rest of the old foam.
6.) marine carpet to match what I cut out that I will replace back with spray can of fabric adhesive.
7.) Galvanized screws for attaching deck
8.) loctite epoxy to fill old screw holes.

 

[Woodonglass]

The Plytanium plywood will work. You're description leaves me a bit skeptical of her overall condition. I'd really like to see pics of her once the deck has been removed and we can see the condition of the foam and stringers. What Year is she??

 

[ERock82]

The Plytanium plywood will work. You're description leaves me a bit skeptical of her overall condition. I'd really like to see pics of her once the deck has been removed and we can see the condition of the foam and stringers. What Year is she??

Don't have pics of deck atm. It's a 95 bayliner capri 14 ft. Stringers are completely glassed in. Took several core samples with drill near area with worst deck rot and wet foam. Samples revealed very fresh wood ...i was surprised but that's prob from fiberglass coating.

 

[Woodonglass]

All stringers are glassed in on boats of this vintage. Why do you think the deck became rotted? Were there some kind of penetrations into it from the top side that allowed water to get to the wood core? Did you core sample the transom as well?

 

[tpenfield]

ERock - you list "indoor plywood" in your materials list. Use "Exterior" rated plywood.

Exposure 1, Exterior and Marine plywood grades all use the same glue. Interior (indoor) plywood would not have the proper glue.

 

[Woodonglass]

tpenfield...the Plytanium plywood is rated interior/exterior. It does in fact use the appropriate glue in it's laminations.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Lots of us have used Aurauco plywood; it's a high quality plywood suitable for exterior use. It's available around my part of the world for about $35 a sheet: http://www.homedepot.com/p/ARAUCO-C...ual-0-688-in-x-48-in-x-96-in-799397/202677224

You are in the right place to get help for this... these guys asking questions and offering suggestions know their stuff!

 

[tpenfield]

tpenfield...the Plytanium plywood is rated interior/exterior. It does in fact use the appropriate glue in it's laminations.

Yes, understood . . . I was concerned that the OP understood that there is - Pressure treated - , - Exterior grades - and - Interior grades - to choose from and that he should avoid any strictly Interior grade as a choice, given that he listed "Indoor Plywood" in his materials list subsequent to your posting about the Plytanium brand.

 

[Arawak]

Could someone please tell me if the paint idea or water sealer idea would work and if there are any other alternatives?

Please don't tell me that I need to just DEAL with the cost of 4 gallons of epoxy bc I know there has to be other ways and it is out of my budget. I don't need the floor to last 10-20 years either. I will probably upgrade in 5 or 6 years.

The last boat I had was a 14' runabout that my buddy got free about 10 years ago. He replaced the deck with cheap 1/2" or 5/8" exterior plywood, put it in place with PL, and then glopped exterior fence paint on it. He traded it to another friend a couple years later, and that guy pounded it it up and down Erie in 3 foot waves. Eventually it came to me after sitting in a barn for 2 years.

The plywood had checked somewhat (this is why you are supposed to put mat or woven cloth on fir ply) but another coat of paint has been glopped on. It was dirty and moldy, but I scrubbed it all down with bleach and it was fine. Drove it for two seasons and sold it. That fellow covered the deck with outdoor carpet and is still using it.

The moral of the story is that depending on your expectations, and if you are on a tight budget, plywood+paint may be fine for a work boat.

BTW... 4 gallons is a LOT of resin! If you need that much to glue down a deck and cover it you must have a pretty big boat.

 

[Woodonglass]

Yes, understood . . . I was concerned that the OP understood that there is - Pressure treated - , - Exterior grades - and - Interior grades - to choose from and that he should avoid any strictly Interior grade as a choice, given that he listed "Indoor Plywood" in his materials list subsequent to your posting about the Plytanium brand.

Yeah, I undersand. Lowe's and Home Depot advertise the Plytanium as "Suitable for Interior/Exterior Use". It can be confusing.

 

[Corjen1]

BTW... 4 gallons is a LOT of resin! If you need that much to glue down a deck and cover it you must have a pretty big boat.

For what its worth, Im 14 gallons deep in resin on a 17 ft boat, transom, stringers and deck. My floor is 6 feet of that 17 and took almost 3 gallons. CSM, 1708, PB eat resin like its going out of style... (I only have 5 ot 6 1 inch hockey puck trophies)

 

[nurseman]

When you buy your plywood, just make sure that it has the "X" designation in the grade marking. The "X" denotes exterior grade glue. For example "BCX" or "ACX" are both good choices for a boat. Try and stay away from "CDX" as it has a lot of voids, and is of lesser quality. Panels that are rated for interior use only will not have the "X" designation on them. Hope this helps.