Anyone else find this at least unnerving....

bassman284

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The Toyota problem you are referring to was the so called"accelerator issue" which has never been proven to be caused by the car and was likely human error.

Sorry, but I will trust a computer driven car over 99% of human driven ones.

SpaceX can get a rocket to land on a postage stamp sized barge in the middle of the ocean with minimal or no human intervention. Cars are a piece of cake in comparison.
Ya think? When they can land 10 or 15 million rockets on 10 or 15 million barges at the same time, get back to me.
 

achris

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Start mass production "Down Under" and let us know how it goes..... :)

Nah, there's a small backward little country just south of Canada that love testing those sorts of things. ;)
Once the technology is straightened out and the things stop killing people, that's when the rest of the world will take it up.... :rofl:
 

bruceb58

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Europe too!
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/bmw-deplo...000013909.html

If you don't think the tech is ready to start being deployed, you have your head in the sand.

I was working on collision avoidance systems in the late 90s. Now, almost every car can be equipped with them as an option and they will be mandatory on most cars in the next 6 years.
 
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laurentide

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If you don't think the tech is ready to start being deployed, you have your head in the sand.

This blog entry from Tesla on their radar system is fascinating. https://www.tesla.com/blog/upgrading...ng-world-radar


[FONT=&quot]"This is where fleet learning comes in handy. Initially, the vehicle fleet will take no action except to note the position of road signs, bridges and other stationary objects, mapping the world according to radar. The car computer will then silently compare when it would have braked to the driver action and upload that to the Tesla database. If several cars drive safely past a given radar object, whether Autopilot is turned on or off, then that object is added to the geocoded whitelist."

Their radar can also see beyond the vehicle in front of you in zero visibility conditions. This is so far ahead of the scope of human ability.
[/FONT]
 

gm280

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As usual new technology will always be on the horizon. And while we are questioning such new things, it still will happen. However, I remember when electronics was changing over form tubes to transistors. Then came IC (Integrated Circuits). And those IC were configured with thousands of transistors. Then Microprocessors with thousands of IC built inside them. And list goes on. There is no end to such ideas and circuitry. And as we get more niceties in our vehicles, the chance for even one things failing also increases. It is how mathematical probabilities works.

Driving around with an AI vehicle is scary. But think about people relying on circuitry to travel to Mars and of course other planets and back. One little failed circuit make that a life and death situation. Of course there are double and triple redundancy circuits, but with the millions of transistors embedded into those thousands of microprocessors on board, even one failure becomes serious.But technology will move on all the same. Why? Because we are extremely curious humans with the need to dream what is beyond that next hill/planet. JMHO
 

WIMUSKY

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Heck, pretty much every car on the planet has been recalled for some reason or another. Bags deploying on their own, bags not deploying, bags deploying with shrapnel. Bags being the most recent. Uconnect, where someone can take control of your vehicle from an unknown location. I can only imagine when the driverless vehicle gets hacked into..... We are supposed to be off fossil fuels by now too..... Not saying these smart vehicles won't be more prevalent on the roadways, but you're going to have have to force a lot of people to buy them by offering only the one option.....
 

laurentide

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I don't think that any of the proponents of the technology are stating that everything is and will be perfect, as no technology ever is. To reduce the argument to worst case "what ifs" is ignoring the tremendous promise and benefit, and it's kind of a straw man. If we as a society possess a technology that can save 90 people's lives every single day in the US alone, we'd be tremendous fools to not make that happen as soon as logistically possible. That's 300,000 lives in a decade in the US alone. That's on par with the efficacy of modern vaccines.

The biggest hurdle is cultural, and there will doubtless be high profile fatalities that set widespread adoption back several years because of media outrage. But those will be growing pains.

If you don't expect to be driving by approximately the mid-century mark, you don't really have to worry about it if you're reluctant to give up driving your own car. But if you're alive you'll get to see it happen.
 

Pusher

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'Computer power would probably put a spaceship on the moon'

The cost of the finished product will probably be about as much as a spaceship too until economies of scale kick in.

I just picture Russia flying over with an EMP as their Pearl Harbor move. War won.

I'm picturing road rage as still a problem too ;-) https://youtu.be/xGi6j2VrL0o
 

bruceb58

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Uconnect, where someone can take control of your vehicle from an unknown location. I can only imagine when the driverless vehicle gets hacked into.
That's only if Chrysler builds a self driving car. Hopefully, that won't happen.
 

bruceb58

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That's on par with the efficacy of modern vaccines.
Of course you have science deniers that say vaccines are bad just like they say self driving cars are bad. My bet it will be many of the same people.
 

GA_Boater

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Of course you have science deniers that say vaccines are bad just like they say self driving cars are bad. My bet it will be many of the same people.

I disagree. I won't to rush to defend self-drivers at this point in development, but vaccines have saved far more from illness and more lives than any self-driver will for years.

Autonomous cars are not ready for prime time. Should we start using them the way Microsoft lets customers find and debug their operating systems?
 

bruceb58

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I disagree. I won't to rush to defend self-drivers at this point in development, but vaccines have saved far more from illness and more lives than any self-driver will for years.
I never said that the numbers were even close to comparable.
 

laurentide

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I never said that the numbers were even close to comparable.


I did, but the context was that they have that potential in the future.

GA, you're right that we're nowhere near this being a thing yet. Even electric vehicles aren't practical yet due to their limited range. The necessary infrastructure will take at least a couple of decades to implement and we need smaller, lighter batteries or another storage solution.

But here we are on the internet, maybe on a tiny computer that fits in your pocket, having a conversation between many strangers all over the world. 20 years ago we were just starting to get those AOL CD's in the mail every day. Now it's just a part of our routine lives. We can fit half a terabyte on a drive the size of a quarter. These are all market driven innovations. There's a long wait list to buy a base model Tesla model 3 with autopilot, and its range is only 250 miles. My point is that people really do want this technology in their lives, and that market will drive the vision to reality. If there's money to be made someone will find a way.

Now I'm off to order some parts for my 40 year old two stroke outboard :rolleyes:
 

bruceb58

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When automobiles first were arriving on the scene 100+ years ago, people were scared of them as well!
 

Tim Frank

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When automobiles first were arriving on the scene 100+ years ago, people were scared of them as well!

Lack of understanding often (if not usually :) ) is responsible for what appears as fear....but is realistically as much a lack of trust.
Anyone who has experienced the "blue screen of death" or other unexplained/unexplainable computer adventure will at the least be approaching the AIV world with some apprehension, if not complete lack of faith....and healthy skepticism.

The problem for me is that the complexity of the entire required network/infrastructure is probably beyond our collective ability to manage seamlessly....and every negative event that occurs will have a disproportionate impact on what trust has been generated.
Back in the day when the computer world was mostly IBM-based, that world was run by the stereotypical short-sleeved white shirted guy with a pocket protector, brush-cut, and horn-rimmed glasses. They knew EVERYTHING.....and could fix everything. End-to-end control is a rare situation these days in my experience.

As IT exploded, there are no longer folks who do know it all and can fix everything....and the almost infinite combinations of apps and technologies virtually guarantees that there will be unforeseen errors and incompatibilities that create accidental events. The fact that this will likely still be statistically a great improvement in overall safety will in no way diminish the angst when a five car pile-up kills two complete families simply because of a programming glitch.....or an accessory being installed improperly....or some other maintenance item being screwed up because of the training lag or deficit.
Losing a loved one to a drunk driver will not be any less devastating than losing one due to a programming error....but the latter in fact, might be harder to rationalise.
The legalities of all this are mind-boggling and mind-numbing. I could see insurance rates going through the roof; though damage costs may drop, the cost of litigation to try and prove culpability may get silly.

As a possible parallel, air travel has never been safer.....but there is an alarming trend in accidents that have been traced to an ever increasing reliance on fly-by-wire technologies that appears to be eroding basic flying skills. More time gets spent learning to manage and operate the ever more sophisticated systems and less on basic flying skills.
One old-timer opined that if Sully were a thirty-something pilot, that Hudson River event would probably have been catastrophic.

Regardless, if I understand correctly the dependence of this on the installed availability/coverage of 5G technology, it probably won't happen all that quickly up here if a recent report that I read is accurate.
We are still a ways from that .
 

bruceb58

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Lack of understanding often (if not usually :) ) is responsible for what appears as fear....but is realistically as much a lack of trust.
I totally agree with that statement and is why you see some of the responses in this thread as evidence of that.

Same reason you have people that are totally fearful of vaccines and think they can actually cause autism or give you the flu if yo happen to get a flu shot.
 
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