Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

[jtexas]

Few weeks ago had a clogged sewer drain backed up into tubs/toilets. Ran the line found roots, ran the camera found the drain (sched 1120 pvc, 25 years old) was crushed & full of roots. From a tree that's too close to the house anyway. Been noticing that it's growing fast, now I know we been watering & fertilizing it every time we flush.<br /><br />Anyways, prognosis = it will clog again, and often. Recommended treatment = run a new sewer line house to street, complete with new clean-out, total estimated cost $6,500.<br /><br />Now if I had that kind of money I'd seriously consider it but right now, it's just no way. At the top of my list of alternatives is...kill the tree. Cut it down & kill the stump with a fertilizer overdose. It's got to come down anyway.<br /><br />Anybody with experience in this? Will the roots stop growing when the stump dies? I figure, what with no problems for the 5 years I've lived there, if I get rid of the tree we can limp along like we are until we can afford to fix it. I'm not totally insensitive to the environmental impact but you gotta do what you gotta do, right?<br /><br />thanks,<br />jtw

 

[NYMINUTE]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

I think the roots still grow, not entirely sure. Must be an expert here. Good luck jtexas.

 

[NathanY]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

How much can you save by digging the ditch yourself to the sewer main and paying the city to do the tap? If you do end up doing it yourself, remember sh!t will only flow downhill. Grade is very important.

 

[ED21]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

They sell chemicals that are supposed to kill tree roots in a drain.<br />Cut the tree, grind out the stump & use root killer & that may buy you some time.

 

[Barlow]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

how big is the tree JT?<br /><br />do you have the know how to down it safely?<br /><br />If you do, then down it. <br /><br />If not by code regulation, by ethics (environmentally), you should get it repaired ASAP.<br /><br />commission the removal of the tree stump and near root system by the contractor.<br /><br />Depending on the size of the tree/stump/root system (obviously) it should only take a few swipes with their trac-hoe to do this .. probably 30 minutes time for removal, tops. <br /><br />retro-fitting the sewer line and rough restoration should take no more than half a day if the guys know what they're doing - you'll probably see 3 company men there and a city inspector along with a few more "goober's"..<br /><br />but, then again ... everything is situational and I'm not there to evaluate it and don't know the system you have.<br /><br />do what ya have to do JT but, remember you'll be paying more in the future.. service prices don't go down <br /><br />btw- isn't SS Mayfloat in the biz directly? hmmm...<br /><br />*EDIT ADDITION*<br /><br />make a few calls to local contractors to have them schedule visits and get cost estimates .. permits and such are std fare .. its the gougers you need to watch out for. <br /><br />tell them you'll do the finish grade and final restoration.. this will save some bucks but your back might feel it afterwards..

 

[KaGee]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

If the tile is crushed, it's got to be repaired... no way around that. Removing the tree will prevent a reoccurance after the new tile is laid. <br /><br />Why can't the tile be repaired? Why is a new line required?

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

Jtexas,<br /><br />Been there, donethat , got the dang tee-shirt. Ok, first, cut the tree down, the stump will die. Next, get a couple of good shovels and sharpen the the blades to razor sharp(i use a bench grinder, but careful not to over heat the blade, use a hand file to finish the job). Dig up the old line and determine how much of it needs to be replaced. Measure it carefully and dig one or two feet to each side of the pipe, and dig beneath the pipe so you can effectively use a hack saw to cut out the damaged pipe. Then go get couplers and pipe to replace the bad section, and get a clean out diversion section if you want to put one in (it's a short straight piece with a 45 degree section coming off of it that you extend up above grade and cap). Glue it, bury it, and take some aspirin and warm bath because your back is gonna be killing you, and your done! Easy as pie. Best wishes with the project, if I were closer to you I would help out, but thank goodness I'm way over here!

 

[deputydawg]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

Helped fix this exact problem many times. The roots will still grow after the tree is cut. Is the pipe is not crushed you can buy some time by cutting the tree, then hiring or renting a rooter to cut the stumps out of the line. Won't be permanant fix, but will buy 6 months to a year.<br />You probably don't need to replace the entire line, just the damaged section. I fixed this myself a few years ago at my home. Rented bobcat with a backhoe attachment, called in a locate to dig, then started. PVC is easy, just cut out the bad links and replace with new. The cleanout is not rocket science, simply buy a Y connector and put it in the line where you want it, with one end pointed up at an angle. As you fill the hole with your dirt add pipe to the top arm of the Y until it is ground level then cap it. <br />I replaced my entire line, about 130 feet plus a cleanout for a total cost less than $500.

 

[jtexas]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

barlow, it's a maple maybe 30 feet tall, I dunno maybe 12 - 15 inch diameter trunk at the base, about 5 feet from the house. I'd have to hire a hit-man, that's okay I got a referral from a friend. Why anybody'd plant a dang tree that close is beyond me, but I also got an oak that just about touches the eve of the house - it's obviously got to come down, too.<br /><br />The root system might be on steroids from all the water/fertilization it's been getting.<br /><br />But with the tree down, I figure even if it takes awhile to die, growth oughta slow way down, without all that superstructure to support.<br /><br />I have it on good authority (local talk-radio home&garden expert Neil Sperry) that drilling holes in a stump and keeping 'em full of hi-nitrogen fertilizer will kill a stump in a matter of weeks.<br /><br />kagee, it's just a pvc line from the house to the street, not sure what tile you're referring to. <br /><br />why replace the whole line? he mentioned something about schedule 1120 being wimpy & should be replaced with sched. 40. Other than that my guess is either:<br />1. the guys got a boat payment to make, or<br />b. he's got two in college and another on the way.<br /><br />But I haven't invited any other bidders yet. Or asked him about more economical alternatives.<br /><br />I'll have to think long & hard about attempting this myself. My sis-in-law is an actual plumbing contractor, got her training in the USAF but she lives in Great Falls, Montana and don't get down this way much.<br /><br />thanks for all the input - any others?

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

Jtexas, <br /><br />Don't be shy about this job. It really is a piece of cake. When I did mine, I only replaced 8 feet, and it was only about 2 to 3 feet blow grade. The digging was worst part, but with the sharpened shovels they went right through the roots. Also, onle you repair the line, it won't be feeding the roots any more. If you want you can e-mail me at toy4runr@mchsi.com and I can talk specifics with you.

 

[jtexas]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

Hold on thar! 2 to 3 feet below grade? you may have just solved a mystery. just a couple months after we moved in, spring of '00, we made that whole side of the yard into a flower garden. I took a big 'ol rented rear-tine tiller to it, tilled it at least two feet down. Trying to go around the roots of course, not wanting at that point to kill the tree. Is it possible that I shredded the pipe myself and the tree just took advantage?<br /><br />i just wonder...still, the digging won't be that bad, it's not got any turf or anything but rich loamy soil.<br /><br />thanks for the encouragement!

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

I just did a search that indicates 1120 PVC is Schedual 40. Maybe a plumber here can help.<br /><br />My 60 yr old father ran a brand new sewer line, its pretty darn easy.<br /><br />Get some shovels and start digging, ya dont have to finish it all in one day either.<br /><br />Dig it up one day, fix the pipe another, back fil it another.<br /><br />Ken

 

[deputydawg]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

The tiller may have dfinately caused some damage. Then again maybe not. Roots don't intrude into plastic pipe as much as the old clay drain pipe, but it does happen. If the camera showed the pipe was collapsed, it could be. If you have a basement you will be able to look and see how deep the sewer line is. The riser or pipe exiting the house "should" be the highest point in the line. It should slope to the street main from there. This will tell you the depth and if it was possible to have tilled into the line.<br />Years back I had a trencher digging in a new fresh water line for me. He dug up about 12 feet of clay sewer pipe from my yard. That house was built before the codes made it wrong to put the water and sewer in the same trench. <br />The pipe you have is good enough, don't let them sell you a whole new sewer because of the pipe quality.<br />The only problem you will find with just patching the broken section with new is it will leave a small lip where the pipe fits. In another 15 or 20 years you may experience a buildup of sludge and junk on that joint clogging the sewer. But that is where the cleanout comes in. You will be able to hire mr. rooter to go into the cleanout and fix it. <br />How far is it to the street main? If it is close, don't let them sell you on a cleanout. You can access the sewer line from the riser in the basement or under the house. The cleanout is only for easy access, and to give an access point in the middle of long stretches of line. The riser, or pipe the sewer enters the house, should have a cap on the end that is also a cleanout point if needed.<br />The "tile" you asked about is another name for sewer pipe. Drain tile is sewer pipe basically. <br />I would definately do more research though, I find it hard to see where tree roots would collapse a sewer pipe, and that price is high for a simple replacemnet of line unless you have a long distance to go. Finally the pipe grade just baffles me.

 

[wajajaja]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

apart from the dyi part, and home depot rental shop, there are some government programs that may just pay for it. pending on your economics. check in with your county agent.

 

[jtexas]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

thanks, dd, lot of good info there. On the pipe grade, it's probably a misunderstanding - it was mentioned in the conversation, but now after the fact I couldn't be certain he gave that as his reasoning. <br /><br />No basements (or very rare) in Texas. <br /><br />Funny thing, when I said they want to put in a new clean-out, everybody assumed I don't already have one. That's understandable, because you can't imagine why they would recommend replacing the perfectly good one that we already have, in fact the same one they ran the camera through. I don't know the answer to that either. But he does intend to abandon the existing one.<br /><br />It's a good 35 feet from the house to the curb.<br /><br />Now wajajaja that is some good thinkin'! if I could get da man to pay that would be some kind of excellent. Sadly I'm pretty much in that class of people that make too much for the gummit assistance but not enough to qualify for all the tax breaks enjoyed by the wealthy.

 

[vrod2002]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

3 laws of plumbing:<br /><br />**** runs down hill<br /><br />Don't eat with your fingers<br /><br />Payday is friday<br /><br />Questions:<br />Slab or Basement?<br />Estimated how far to the collapse from house?<br />How close is the tree from the collapse?<br />How far to the street from house?<br /><br />Opinions from limited info:<br />The joint always leaked somewhat or ground shifted.Trees go for moisture. Your cleanout guys made the joint worse over time.Depending on how far it is to the street,your plumber sounds like he's a shister! Do not replace the whole line just fix the bad joint.Cut out about 3 t0 4 feet and do install a vent/cleanout.Coupler on one end and code grade hub on the other.Cut the repair to fit tight! Dont forget about the 1 1/2 loss at coupler joint!Slip "code" rubber hub and collar past repair on old pipe.Primer/glue new pieces before attaching to new union.This leaves only one joint to primer/glue and set.Level vent quickly.Slip hub and collar tighten.Rope of repair and dont back fill for a day or two.Be sure to put "clean" rock under fix not minus.Minus settles.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

The roto-tiller may be the culprit here, because the sewer line must run downward from your house to the stree, so the line is fairly shallow up near the house. An easy way to determine the depth is with post hole diggers. You can quickly dig down to the pipe in couple of spots to determine it's location and depth.

 

[deputydawg]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

Where was my mind? I was thinking you had to go below the 3 foot mark to get under the frost. Maybe you don't have that problem there. <br />A plumber friend of mine said that to run a new sewer line to a house with no basement is not that high. He would do it for around $1500, but that is just a guess. There are a lot of factors here, and your area my be higher on average for plumbers. <br />Good luck to you.

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

How close is the cleanout to the house? wonder if he thinks the line might also be crushed up stream from the cleanout plug (you can only snake/ scope one direction from the plug since it's a 'Y' connection, right?)<br /><br />Of course it couldn't be too bad upstream from the cleanout cause after snaking downstream from the cleanout it's working again, right?<br /><br />Do you have a crawl space or slab? If crawlspace, is there access to an inside cleanout where you could check the condition from the house to the outside cleanout?<br /><br />While trying to keep an open mind, your plumbers advice and price sound kind of shady to me, too. Would be interested in hearing what the advice & quotes from a couple of other plumbers in your area is.<br /><br />I'm somewhat cynical about plumbers right now. I know there's capable & honest ones, but my last experience was this:<br /><br />lines backed up at a rental house I've got (19 years old). I live 1.5 hours away so called to have the line snaked. Plumber couldn't find the outside cleanout plug cause it was buried under a couple of inces of mulch/ dirt in the front yard. Instead of calling to ask me where it was (I could have told him within a couple of feet) they pulled a toilet & tried to snake from there. Didn't work so climbed up on the roof & tried to snake from the vent stack. Got the snake stuck and had to cut & redo some of the pipes under the crawlspace in order to free the snake. Fortunately, my tenant came home, spent about 5 minutes to locate the cleanout in the front yard, and they finally snaked from there.<br /><br />Bottom line is that they were there till like 10:30 p.m., one guy spent 6 or 7 hours on the job and his 'reinforcement' another 4 or so. Bill was for $1100 for what should have been, what, maybe a $100-$150 job if they'd just bothered to ask where the cleanout was located? Negotiated to pay a little over half. <br /><br />Later found out that there's a cleanout plug on the main pipe in the crawl space they could have accessed for a straight shot even if they didn't find the one outside (and crawlspace is mostly around 4-4.5 feet high in most places, not like they'd have to crawl around on their bellies). If I'd know that at the time, I'd have been hesitant to pay anywhere near what I did. <br /><br />If any of you are plumbers, can you tell me if there is any valid reason for not using the crawlspace main cleanout, given that they didn't spend time to find the outside one?

 

[rolmops]

Re: Anybody paid $6500 for plumbing repairs recently?

Hello.<br />I did plumbing for a few years;mainly construction of sewerline<br />I have never heard of a treeroot crushing pvc. Schedule 40 is heavy duty material and no tree will crush it.Why this plumber guy wants to use schedule 40 instead of SDR35(sewer/drain)is beyond me. Gluing pipe that goes underground actually violates code in quite a few municipalities.SDR 35 has slide in connectors that do not allow root to penetrate.<br />If your sewer line was 2 or 3 feet below grade and you cracked it up it with your tiller (very possible),then just dig out that area and replace that piece of pipe with the same material that is in there now.Instead of trying to glue in both the new connections,glue in only one. Use a 4 inch rubber slide on connector("fernco") on the other one, screw it tight and pour a bag of concrete around it so no root will penetrate.This will save you hours of cursing. Trees do not crush PVC.Before you do your repair,make sure that you have the line cleaned out completely and ask the plumber FOR THE VIDEO of the pipe.It is yours.You paid for it.<br />As for the tree,(A sugar maple I suspect)just let it be.It does not crush PVC.It will only concentrate root in the trench, because trenches are disturbed soil often with water in the bottom.<br />If you decide to replace the entire line,insist on using SDR35 because it is just as good as schedule 40.It is also cheaper and it is laid a lot faster.<br />Just remember to lay your pipe at a quarter inch per foot pitch.<br />Good luck.