Antenna cable length?

BigD

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 20, 2002
Messages
39
Howdy, I'm new to this board but it looks like a great resource. I have just mounted the bracket for the antenna (VHF) and the radio is within three feet, the cable supplied is pretty long, my question is could I, or should I shorten it? Will this have any adverse effect on the sending or receiving ablilities of the radio?
 

SeaDawg

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Messages
418
Re: Antenna cable length?

It will probably change the "standing wave ratio", which is no good.<br /><br />I would leave it full length, and "zig-zag" (do not coil) the cable, and tuck it out of the way with a wire tie or two.
 

BigD

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 20, 2002
Messages
39
Re: Antenna cable length?

Seadog,<br /> Thanks for the info.
 

trollhole

Chief Petty Officer
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Sep 19, 2001
Messages
423
Re: Antenna cable length?

I was under the impression you could cut it but the remaining cable had to be in three foot increments? Am I wrong? :mad:
 

mad mahi

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2001
Messages
41
Re: Antenna cable length?

There is a definite relationship between the length of the coax between transmitter and antenna and the overall SWR of the system. The antennas are always an even fraction of the full wave distance of the frequency that they are meant to operate on. The coax length,, likewise, should be an even fraction as well. <br /><br />I am not that familair with the lenght of a full VHF wave, so it is possible that any length that is a multiple of 3 feet might be the ticket. I would check it with a knowledgeable person before cutting any coax.<br /><br />A proportionate mismatch in antenna length and coax length will increase the SWR by some proportion until the transmit distance is severely impaired or possibly backs up into the final transistors causing them to overheat and blow.<br /><br />It is always a good investment to check the SWR on a new installation as well as yearly to avoid these probllems.
 

BigD

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 20, 2002
Messages
39
Re: Antenna cable length?

Okay, how would I check (SWR) it?
 

Pursuit2150

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Messages
553
Re: Antenna cable length?

There is no relationship for the cable length from the radio to the antenna,keep it as short as possible avoid sharp bends,kinks,etc.<br />The higher the antenna the longer the range,the higher the gain the more the beam is focused (narrowed).<br /><br />As noted above the wave length of an antenna @ 1 meter increments is for FM radios,but a good marine antenna compansates for this.<br /><br />An SWR meter can be used to see what the actual signal strength of the radio actually is. If you can borrow on that's good,if you buy one you will use it once in a great while ,or loan it out.<br /><br />Cables are available in various ready to go lengths,3,10,12,25,50,100',none of them are divisible by 1 meter.=39.37"
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: Antenna cable length?

BigD, you will need to buy or borrow an SWR meter to check it. They cost about 30buks, so you may want to try and find a ham radio operator with a SWR bridge for 2 meters.And He/she will probably check it for free. A marina may be able to test it, but they most certainly will charge you the hourly rate...But it only takes a few minutes to test.<br />Try to mount the radio farther away from the antenna for another reason.It might get feedback,and squeel on high power.
 

dustydiesel

Cadet
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
23
Re: Antenna cable length?

Is the swr meter for a VHF the same as a CB radio? If so you may be able to borrow one from some one in the trucking industry. I bought one years ago used it once and it has been colecting dust ever since. But then I like to collect tools.
 

MGuckin

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 10, 2001
Messages
760
Re: Antenna cable length?

This might be a question for Schematic. Still learning about boats but I might be able to help with this.<br />In laymans terms, SWR or VSWR has nothing at all to do with the operating frequency of the transmitter. It is basically a measurement of the effiency of the created transmission signal (voltage) to the load (coax and antenna). It takes into consideration, line loss and reflection.<br />Wether in feet or meters, coax length does make a difference. Most antennas are tuneable to compensate for inefficient SWR readings. Stick with coax lengths in 1 meter increments from the antenna load and attempt to get a reading of 3:1 or lower using a SWR meter. I am running a 20' supply (coax) from my antenna load and I get readings of 1.6:1.<br />Locate a meter and test it.
 

mad mahi

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2001
Messages
41
Re: Antenna cable length?

I stand corrected. After Pursuit 2150's reply, I checked some of my old install hand books and one of my friends who is a Ham.<br /><br />The length of coax only effects CB Radio Installations, due to their much lower frequency.<br /><br />For VHF the proper technique is to use the highest quality and thickest conductor that you can afford and fits your intended installation. Keep the length to the shortest amount possible but NOT shorter than 3 feet. Try to avoid any bends that are more than 90 degrees.<br /><br />Sorry about the earlier incorrect information!
 

Pursuit2150

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Messages
553
Re: Antenna cable length?

I have to get in here once more.<br /> An swr meter does give an indication of the antenna signal strength,most CB ant.are adjustable,most marine ant.<br />are not.<br />The 1 meter increment has no factor for a marine radio. 20' as stated above is not in increments of 1 meter.<br />Most good antennas come with various cable lengths,as long as the coax is a good quality,and the connections are done right with a good shield there should'nt be a problem.
 

ODDD1

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jan 23, 2001
Messages
1,054
Re: Antenna cable length?

Over the years I have replaced many a snapped fiberglass vhf antenna...I have always kept the coax as short as practically possible, many times eliminating a 20ft wad of extra wire....and never noticed a difference in reception/transmission...I have also fixed numerous 'weird' rf/power problems in vhf/gps by eliminating this extra 20ft of coiled 'antenna' under the console.....
 

MGuckin

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 10, 2001
Messages
760
Re: Antenna cable length?

As I said, maybe I can help.<br />Your right. It is not in an even increment of meters. It is 6.09 meters. Maybe I am wrong and if I am, I do apologize but thats how we learn and hopefully it will not effect this installation. The information I posted came from another forum that I frequent concerning electronics. Maybe I just lucked out with my set up. If I can shorten it I would prefer to. Just trying to help.<br /> :eek: <br />edit:<br />my whip is adjustable
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: Antenna cable length?

SWR ,(standing wave ratio) is the ratio between RF power the antenna system can radiate,called "Forward",to the amount of RF power it reflects back to the radio (called reflected). <br />The reflected power is unused,useless,and if enough of it is present, bad for your radio. The principles are the same for all types of transmitters, whether they are CB,VHF,or cell phone. These all transmit RF energy.The differences are the mode (FM,AM,CW ect),and the frequency they operate on. CB is 27MHz,VHF is in the 170MHz area of the spectrum. The only other thing to deal with is line loss. At lower frequencies ,like CB, line loss is less critical than on higher frequencies. VHF marine band is somewhat suceptable to line loss in standard coax cable such as RG-78-U, which is the standard 50ohm coax that comes packaged with most radios,regardless of what type of radio they are.<br />This is because it is cheaper. Line loss should only be of concerne if your VHF rig will have a long run of coax.If over 12feet,I would change it to RG-8U, the thick stuff.The white coax is a marine-grade insulation form of RG58-U,and unless you have a yacht with a tuna tower, it should do just fine. If you mount the antenna close to the radio, or any other electronics, like within 3feet or so, expect it to interfere with that other device.<br />SWR must be checked. And there ARE slight differences in the useable frequency of SWR briges.One designed for CB may allow you to determine there are no shorts in the coax, but the forward and reflected scales will be totally whacky.<br />2 meter ham swr meters are close enough to get fairly acurate readings, but the CB jobby may actually try to radiate some RF on it's own when hooked up to your VHF,and act like a small antenna in itself..Uncool.<br />Best bet is buy one,borrow one, or have it checked by a ham or marine elctronics shop.<br />If you didn't live in MD, I'd check it for you.<br />My callsign is N4ZAW, but I live in Florida.
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: Antenna cable length?

Well,dangitall...I just spent the last 2 hours searching the web for a good picture of "how-to" check standing wave...<br />It got deep,guys LOL , but nodda..Lots of really cool antenna designs and software for turning yer old puter in the garage into a fully functioning,triggered ociloscope,but not one pic of this procedure! And it is really simple. I'm gonna try to 'splane how to do it.<br />Fist, you need an SWR meter capable of acurate readings in the 157-162MHz range.A ham 2-meter would work fine, or a Bird with a 2 meter slug. This is the only CB meter that will come close to werking.<br />You will also need a short jumper of coax (to go from the meter to the radio while testing).<br />The meter will have the 2 connectors on the back. One will read "ANT", and the other "trans" for transeiver (the radio).<br />Just hook it up,and check in forward and refected positions. Some meters will have one needle and a toggle switch,and some will have 2 needles (these have no toggle switch,because they read both forward and reflected at the same time.<br />Understand,that durring this test, you will have to transmit,so test on a monday (less traffic),and make your transmissions brief. Identify yourself and what you are doing while you read the meter.
 

BigD

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 20, 2002
Messages
39
Re: Antenna cable length?

Well, the radio and ant. are mounted. I mounted both on the C.C. to allow for casting and fishing clearance, ant. was mounted on the transom before and was in the way a lot. GPS (handheld) and depth finder are also mounted on the console, sounds like this might be a problem with interference, but it's the only place I have to mount the electronics :( I'm going to hit the water on Friday and try out my new trolling set-up, GPS and give the radio a shot and see how it works. I left the wire full length (chicken to cut it)and spread out inside the console. Figured I could always cut it later. I still would like to cut it though. If you do cut it would you use inline connecters to lengthen it? Thanks to all for all the info I'll reply with the results.<br /> BigD
 

SeaDawg

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Messages
418
Re: Antenna cable length?

Yea BigD, Radio Shack sells most of the connectors that you would need, if you do decide to shorten it.<br /><br />It it were mine (after reading what everyone else has said), I would try it for a few trips, and if it caused problems with other things, I would then shorten the cable. <br /><br />If everything worked to my satisfaction, I'd leave it alone.
 

BigD

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Mar 20, 2002
Messages
39
Re: Antenna cable length?

Went on on Thurs in the mid Bay area for a shakedown. Radio seemed to work great. After reading the instuctions that came with the radio,(duhh) it said you could trim the wire to any length, but it should be at least 3 foot long. Thankls again for all the advice<br />Dennis
 
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