Another electrical question...

[dhud64]

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<br /><br />How do I get from the old switch to the new one? I also want the new one to show that it's grounded when I plug in one of those outlet tester things.<br /><br />

 

[sangerwaker]

Re: Another electrical question...

Huh? Totally lost. First of all, I can't see your pics. Just that darned red x. Are we talking about household 120V AC? How do you plug a receptacle tester into a switch?

 

[dhud64]

Re: Another electrical question...

Sorry about the pics, they come up for me??? Anyway, it is a 120v system.<br /> <br />It is an old light switch/2 prong outlet outlet that I want to replace!<br />It is a light switch/grounded outlet that I want to go to!<br />The switch controlls wall light, outlet is always hot.

 

[sangerwaker]

Re: Another electrical question...

Sorry, but what you are trying to do is not possible without pulling a new wire. The 2 prong outlet IS NOT GROUNDED. The older homes did not have grounds. Using a grounded otlet on a non grounded system is also not cool. The correct way to ground that is to fish a wire and connect it to a copper water pipe(providing your system is grounded to the water main) or back to the ground bar in the panel.

 

[sangerwaker]

Re: Another electrical question...

This is what you are trying to put in right?<br /><br />

 

[dhud64]

Re: Another electrical question...

Hmmmmmmmmmm.<br />Thanks for the info.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Another electrical question...

S WANKER is correct .. but you still mite be ok.. <br /><br />seen many old houses that use old 'BX' that's a grounded system but still used '2-prong ' stuff..<br /><br />easy to tell.. voltmeter from wires to the box itself.. if'n you read hot,, it's grounded..<br /><br />note//<br />make sure you 'scrape' good the box to get a true reading..

 

[BrianFD]

Re: Another electrical question...

<br />I think this is what you have (without actually being there, I'm not sure.)<br />Notice in the pic, I've labeled all your wires.<br />F=Feed from your panel box<br />SL=Switch load (your lamp, etc. on the switch<br />OF=outlet feed<br />G=ground<br />First, make sure the circuit is dead (check w/volt meter, trip the breaker, check with the voltmeter)<br />2nd, cut all the wires, one at a time, as close to the old fixture as you can, to save wire.<br />Your replacement has 2 brass screws on one side. That's your feed (F) side. Tighten one of the brass screws down. Strip the insulation off the F wire and put it under the other brass screw on the same side. Connect your red wire (SL) to the brass screw on the other side of the switch. Connect the white (G) wire to the silver screw.<br />I think you're done!

 

[sangerwaker]

Re: Another electrical question...

Ya know crab, I've seen lots of folks mis spell my name, usually walker instead of waker. Don't know whether yours was intentional or not, but either way it's not appreciated when it comes out sounding like yours did.<br /><br />PS dhud64- crab is also correct assuming the box is a metal one.

 

[BrianFD]

Re: Another electrical question...

OH, yeah, and Sangerwaker is correct about the 3rd wire (bare) needed for the ground prong. However, what I've done (and it may be cheating and it may not be "code") is to run a short jumper from the neutral screw to the ground (green) screw. At least that way, the 3rd prong is attached to something.<br />Now if your box is grounded through BX wire (as crabbait mentioned), you can run a short jumper from the green screw to the box and attach it with a self-tapping screw to the inside back of the box.<br />Hope this helps!

 

[dhud64]

Re: Another electrical question...

Originally posted by sangerwaker:<br /> This is what you are trying to put in right?<br /><br />

Yes

 

[dhud64]

Re: Another electrical question...

Originally posted by BrianFD:<br />

<br />I think this is what you have (without actually being there, I'm not sure.)<br />Notice in the pic, I've labeled all your wires.<br />F=Feed from your panel box<br />SL=Switch load (your lamp, etc. on the switch<br />OF=outlet feed<br />G=ground<br />First, make sure the circuit is dead (check w/volt meter, trip the breaker, check with the voltmeter)<br />2nd, cut all the wires, one at a time, as close to the old fixture as you can, to save wire.<br />Your replacement has 2 brass screws on one side. That's your feed (F) side. Tighten one of the brass screws down. Strip the insulation off the F wire and put it under the other brass screw on the same side. Connect your red wire (SL) to the brass screw on the other side of the switch. Connect the white (G) wire to the silver screw.<br />I think you're done!

Now thats cool! I think I can handle that!<br />Thanks

 

[BrianFD]

Re: Another electrical question...

Just noticed: The white wire in the pic should be labeled "N" for neutral. "G" would be the bare ground wire. Just semantics where I come from... in linework, ground = neutral & vice-versa. With inside wiring, there's a difference. "Ground" is the bare/waterpipe 'ground', and the white wire is the "neutral" conductor.<br />[DISCLAIMER:BTW, as like getting advice from a doctor or other professional online, the advice given in good faith may not actually be the correct advice. Use your own judgement, and if you feel like you're in over your head (you ARE!!), so call a professional for his/her advice.]

 

[dhud64]

Re: Another electrical question...

Gotcha BrianFD, I'm comfortable with what you said, and already figured the white was neutral. However, there is no bare ground wire for the green screw.<br /><br />In my wall outlets that I have replaced I simply ran I jumper from the unused neutral screw to the green screw and viola, the tester showed a grounded outlet. Does that make sense? (An old electrician showed me that years ago when I began replacing outlets in the house).<br /><br />I don't think I can do that in this application correct? I sould probably run a wire from the metal box to the green screw?

 

[sangerwaker]

Re: Another electrical question...

Technically, a ground wire and a neutral wire go to the same place in the main panel. However, a ground wire gives the current an extra path to return to ground. You can ground to the metal ONLY if the BOX is also grounded. Check it with a meter as crab mentioned earlier.<br /><br />If the box is not grounded, you can run a jumper as you have done in the past on your other outlets. This is NOT code, but it will work.<br /><br />In the picture I posted, the hot feed goes to one of the terminals on the right. The other will be unused in your situation. The upper terminal on the left of the picture goes to the light fixture. The lower terminal (silver screw) is for the neutral. Make 2 short tails of wire (4-6") and connect one each to the silver and green screws. Use a wire nut to connect those two tails and the white wire from the box, after properly stripping the wires.<br /><br />BTW- I also side with Brian on the disclaimer issue!

 

[crab bait]

Re: Another electrical question...

err-ah,, sorry about the name.. not intentional at all..sorry..<br /><br />using the neutral as a ground is probalbly the biggest code violation there is..<br /><br />an also ,, a major saftey violation as well.. <br /><br />the reason a electrical circut works is it's really a short circut but not via a load..<br /><br />it's basicly a hot wire an a neutral/basicly-a-ground wire/return wire touching together but via/thru a 'load'..that is basicly holding hands with the two wires.. <br /><br />the load ,current used, keeps the circut intact..<br /><br />a 'load' is a lite bulb, motor, appliance, a human (i 'll get to that later ) an ect.<br /><br />the only thing keeping an electrical circut from short circuting is the load.. <br /><br />hence the word 'shortcircut'.. the 2 wires comming together before ( 'short' of ) the load..<br /><br />how the ground works,, is it's not connected to the load at all or even the circut for that matter..<br /><br /> it's just an independent wire running along with the other wires but is connected/bonded to every piece of metal/box/framework that the circut passes thru/in/on/or by..<br /><br />an ungrounded circut could have a problem/a short an would keep on working..cause why not,, nothings really wrong as per the circuts point of view..<br /><br /> a person comes along an touches the housing ,say a freezer in a basement .. an WHAP you get shocked..<br /><br />cause it flowed thru you ,,too..!! it would never 'blow a fuse/breaker ..!! why would it.. NO SHORT HERE..!! you just became EXTRA LOAD on the circut..!!<br /><br />the reason for the ground wire ,,is so if the freezer had a problem an current hopped to the frame,,it would immediately hop on the ground wire an go straight to the panel an blow.. just as same like touching the 2 wires together.. <br /><br />the hot touching the ground POP GOES THE BREAKER .. <br /><br />you jumpin the a wire from the neutral on the recepticle to the ground screw does nothing .. an if you were to get shocked,, you'd keep on getting shocked cause you just became 'ADDED/EXTRA LOAD'..

 

[BrianFD]

Re: Another electrical question...

dhud said:

I don't think I can do that in this application correct? I sould probably run a wire from the metal box to the green screw?<br />

Correct! If you had 12/2 or 12/3 with ground feeding into the box, you'd have a bare copper wire for a ground. Since I don't see one, I'm presuming that it's not there.<br />You can run a wire from the metal box to the green screw, but only if the box is grounded (check it with a voltmeter from a known hot wire to the box itself. If you get a reading, then the box is grounded... like crab bait mentioned earlier if BX wire is being used.).<br />Good Luck!

 

[waterone1@aol.com]

Re: Another electrical question...

what you are doing is covering up an issue, not solving it. The correct way is to pull new cable (romex 12-2wg). Anything else is dangerous to your family and anyone you might sell the house to.

 

[bomar76]

Re: Another electrical question...

Originally posted by waterone1:<br /> what you are doing is covering up an issue, not solving it. The correct way is to pull new cable (romex 12-2wg). Anything else is dangerous to your family and anyone you might sell the house to.

And the grounds and neutrals need to seperated in the panel, and a ground rod driven. Bond the grounds to the panel and connect the ground bar to the rod with #4 bare.

 

[BrianFD]

Re: Another electrical question...

Dunno about your panelbox, Bomar, but mine are all connected to the same busbar in the panel box... white neutrals and bare grounds, with a #4 cu sol going to a water pipe.