Angle plug heads

[JustJason]

Re: Angle plug heads

1. Your insane

2. Your going to need a bravo 1X

3. Your going to need full power hydraulic steering

4. Your going to need a good set of trim tabs in order to keep the hull from walking all over the place

5. All of that stuff is going to cost more than the boat is worth, and I am not including touching the engine yet

6. The boat is going to shake and peel itself to bits if you manage to get it past 60... bayliners are very very "thin"

 

[Yukonmuscle]

Re: Angle plug heads

We will see. Last year at 60 mph it was still rock stable in the water at any speed. Your prob right that I'm a little insane but without people like me the world would be a boring place. Seems like the water is the only
Place left to go as fast as you want.

Might need trim tabs, won't know till I try, but I doubt hydraulic steering will be needed. Plenty of boats going fast without it. It would be nice to have a bravo 1 drive but the alpha is just gonna have to take the beating. Easy in the hole shots, keep the prop in the water and it should be fine. Fluids are new too to bottom every year in my boat so I'm not worried there. Ordered a drive shower today to help with some cooling.
Who knows how this is gonna go. I can see I'm def more optimistic then a few people on here, but it's my boat, I put it together so I'm allowed to be

 

[thumpar]

Re: Angle plug heads

We will see. Last year at 60 mph it was still rock stable in the water at any speed. Your prob right that I'm a little insane but without people like me the world would be a boring place. Seems like the water is the only
Place left to go as fast as you want.

Might need trim tabs, won't know till I try, but I doubt hydraulic steering will be needed. Plenty of boats going fast without it. It would be nice to have a bravo 1 drive but the alpha is just gonna have to take the beating. Easy in the hole shots, keep the prop in the water and it should be fine. Fluids are new too to bottom every year in my boat so I'm not worried there. Ordered a drive shower today to help with some cooling.
Who knows how this is gonna go. I can see I'm def more optimistic then a few people on here, but it's my boat, I put it together so I'm allowed to be

I'd like to see the GPS.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Angle plug heads

Yukonmuscle More Power To Ya! Definitely there have been trendsetters in history, some succeeded, some failed, but all had the courage to forge forward! Good Luck, & God Bless!

By the way, whatever happens would you leave me your boat in your will?

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Angle plug heads

Yes I'm def trying to get my bayliner 195 to hit 70 or more! Compression is gonna be around 9.5.1, be nice to run regular but we will see. The boat is towed to the lakes every weekend so I can fill up with any fuel I need and don't need to run what the local marina sells. I think it will do 70 plus but we will find out. When using the prop I have now, using actual speed and and rpm I can correctly calculate slip with a prop calculator. So just by raising my rpm from 4900 to 6000 should put me close to 70. I'm expecting to have to run a 25 pitch prop this year, with the extra power the 24 I have now might not be big enough..... We will see what happens this spring I guess. I can't find any other bayliners online that are running 70+ mph so it's tough to ask questions about the hull to anyone that's experienced

I would be the first to say carry on and tinker your heart away....However you will need a bigger cam than you have now..maybe you do.....do you have your cam card avaible. Yes those heads will flow more air at high rpm but does the engine have the component's to allow that?? Without the right cam and spring's there earing's on a pig.


Ahh and as to 70 in a 19...wear your life jacket and that is no jest...been there and have almost done that...

 

[bigdirty]

Re: Angle plug heads

Just read through this.. i think is gona be awesome! +1 for insane, but thats not ment as an insult. And for the record, bayliners may be the bic lighter of boating, but im a guy that threw a built sbc in an 85 mazda rx7... so the sleeper aspect is cool imo ... as long as your transom isn't soft, and you know the hull/sturcture is in good shape at this point, why not? :lol: who cares what the boat is 'worth' to someone else, is that why you are building it?

I somewhat agree that the alpha MAY not handle the task, but then again it might.. I've sen alphas behind 454's that do just fine. Hole shot would be the hardest thing on it with this setup, the shock load from coming out of the water at speed (its gona happen..) will be the next, but with this in mind and driven accordingly, it may be ok.. lots of sustained high rpm running may be the killer in the end however.. the drive shower will help, but you are gona have to keep an eye on things... That said, a guy I know had a 20ft chris craft with a mild 5.7 and an alpha 1 that he BEAT on for 7 years (it was either idle, or 5500 rpm, pin to win, all in, balls to the wall) before the drive finally grenaded and the top gear set tried to walk out of the drive case..

Also, I've been in plenty of boats that do 60-70+ mph that aren't running hydraulic steering, with no issues.. but I think you will need tabs to keep it in check.. and a +1 for the life vest, and maybe a tethered kill switch if you are running it over 50pmh..

 

[Yukonmuscle]

Re: Angle plug heads

Yeah I'm not sure about the cam running past 5500r either tail gunner. It's a comp cams xm270hr. It had a little rumble to it when it was in the 350 Last year but was well mannered around the docks. Comp says power to 5500 rpm. It did have a ton of power in the mid range last year. I am figuring the cam will act similarly in the 383, maybe even a little smoother.
As for showing the GPS I will look through the videos I have from last summer and see if I have a clear shot of the GPS screen. Id imagine its accurate, I use a standard horizon CPI 190 with the pre loaded charts. I'm not a bull ****ter, nothing to gain from that. This boat only weighs 2800lbs on the coast guard plaque so I'm imagining this is why it works well. Even at 60mph the boat is firmly planted in the water.
How do I post pics and or videos on here through my I phone? I'm def not a computer guy lol

 

[Yukonmuscle]

Re: Angle plug heads

The boat is basically new, never seen rain or been left in the water over night so there is no problems with everything being solid. I doubt my mods are gonna be worth more then the boat as I know what the boat cost since I bought it new.......

 

[JustJason]

Re: Angle plug heads

Aside from the horsepower rating. Technically speaking the alpha drive is rated to 65mph.
If you had a "go fast", and you were constantly pushing 60+ with an alpha, your going to be ripping through gimbal rings. I would not be surprised if you replace one every other year. And that's if you keep up on the re-torqueing the steering pin bolts every 25 hours or so. If you don't keep up on that, you might as well be installing gimbal rings like you do water pumps.

Now above 65 mph, the gimbal rings are not designed to take the forces and stress that come with it. Even with everything tight. And even if you have a hydraulic steering system with no slop in it. There is a decent chance that your going to crack a gimbal ring at speed. A lot of this is not about the horsepower ratings or the gears or bearings or clutch, it's about the gimbal and steering holding up at that kind of speed.

 

[Yukonmuscle]

Re: Angle plug heads

That's good advise. I've never had to deal with that. I'll keep checking that. Thank you

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Angle plug heads

That's a lot of cam for a wet exhaust (282) ive looked closer at your build sounds fun..or looks fun. A Victor really dont know about that..But i hope it all works out well here's a good link for a similar build. Above all you have kids be safe.

Cam suggestions for 383 build - Page 7

 

[Walt T]

Re: Angle plug heads

Here's the Cam I used in my 389 stroker: Keep in mind I have a pretty high static line. Heads are standard camel humps 3 angle valve job 1 51/64 springs part #99846. Valve float at 6800 rpm. Flat top pistons, not the best I know but I'm changing heads and cams for the heck of it and wanted to use as standard pistons as possible. Don't lecture me on quenches and wenches it's my toy and I'll play with it any way I want to. So there. PPPbbbbbbbbtttt..

Rockers 1:50
Lift intake .509
Lift exhaust .528

Cam timing .004
Intake duration 284
Exhaust duration 292

Supposedly 1600-5800 rpm range which is slightly high for marine, but engine is 10.135:1 compression and uses the lift well off idle. May possibly try a different cam and install Vortec heads this season. I have 64cc Vortecs which will push compression to 11:1 if not over that. Should be interesting.

I use the Volvo 290 dp 1.95 drive with F5 stainless duo props to start. Old engine would top out 4800 rpms and 47 mph gps. Over 5000 feet in Colorado. New engine with F5s pulled hard, and I mean HARD all the way to 5300 rpm and 52mph gps and was still climbing but I chickened out. Put on F6s and it pulled to 5500 and I could tell power was dropping off. Gps flickered between 58 and 59 mph dang it I wanted 60. I have F7 stainless props now, will try them out hopefully before and after the Vortec mod.

I did all the labor, paid for machine work, parts, and Best Marine pulled and re installed motor for me.

Outside labor: 1236.76 machine shop and engine R&R
Parts: 856.38 for Eagle stroker kit .040 over
486.46 Cam, rollers, springs
300.00 Guessing estimate for misc parts, supplies, carb kit, tune up, etc.
953.77 Manifolds and risers
=======
Total 3833.37

Paid 150 for a set of Vortec heads. Probably be 500 or so to have them done up all nice and purty. Then a new cam.. I'll drop another grand in it easy. Then I still need a Vortec intake.

Feeling and hearing it scream past 5000 rpm and seeing the gps go where no 22 foot cuddy has gone before.. Priceless.
Big heavy 22 foot Hydroswift Cuddy cabin. Loaded with crap, toys, tools, coolers, gas, and people. Weighs 6271 on the trailer.

Is it worth the speed gain? After the Vortec mods I'll have $5000.00 in the engine alone. At possibly a 15 mph top speed gain, that's 333.00 for each MPH gained. Worth it? This is a hobby for me, I don't care. Some folks spend thousands on model trains. Some have race cars they like to race at the local dirt track. Some folks love their Harleys and spend money on them. Some guys like women, spend lots on them even though they turn around and bite the hand that takes them to Cabo, demand commitment, claim they're pregnant not knowing I had a vasectomy years ago, wear tiny little bikinis and act offended when men look at em, act like they want us, look like they want us, but if we even come near to them with that "thing" of ours they grab all the cars we loaned em, grab the clothes we bought 'em and fly to the Bahamas and use the credit cards we gave 'em til our bank account smokes.

 

[Yukonmuscle]

Re: Angle plug heads

I think $333 per mph is pretty cheap! I know the offshore guys who are already running fast would kill to be able to pick up additional mph for $333 each lol. Guaranteed that boating for speed is cheaper then playing with woman lol!!! Sounds like you've got experience with boats and woman lol.
I used reworked camel hump heads on my 355 in my 81 t top z28 and it worked really well. Great iron heads, better then vortecs above 5000r with lots of porting and bowl work. As cast though vortecs are still king

 

[MikDee]

Re: Angle plug heads

This thread gets more interesting for us motorheads! I find it fascinating, although I'm too old for all this now. Those double hump heads I had as far back as on my 62' Impala SS 327/300hp motor. They were the 1st generation 283 Fuely heads carried over to the 327 with 2" intake, & approx. 1.50 exhaust valves and a small maybe 62-64cc oval combustion chamber, providing a 10:1 compression with the flat top notched pistons on the 300hp version, and getting 11.25:1 compression with domed pistons on the 340hp, & 360hp 327 Vette engine that year.

 

[Yukonmuscle]

Re: Angle plug heads

If your willing to spend a lot of time on a flow bench those camel hump heads can make a ton of power in the 6500 rpm range. The thing is by the time that time/money is spent you can buy a really decent set of aftermarket heads

 

[Walt T]

Re: Angle plug heads

I just did a standard valve job / recondition. The only reason I have them on the motor now is because I want to see what, if any, difference there is when I change to Vortec. Smaller boats like under 20' bowriders I would think the difference would definitely be seat of the pants noticeable. My big *** heavy cuddy, maybe not. Big difference going to the 389 stroker but perhaps the old 5.7 was tired so the difference is more pronounced. We shall see.

 

[Yukonmuscle]

Re: Angle plug heads

Just purchased a set of cmi e top headers today. Bought them from 2koolperformance in ontario. Only
Place I could find in canada that will sell them without brokerage and us shipping charges.

Headers are not cheap but I just had to have them. $1900 US$. Add 300+ for the exchange rate and another 320 in Canadian tax....... Cost half of what the damn engine costs to build so prob not a smart decision, but they look amazing in pics compared to manifolds. Also I've never seen anything but manifolds on a boat around here so I think they will add some wow factor when I open the hatch to show the guys lol. 7-12 days to ship to my door so I can't wait now.

Hopefully these headers coupled with my side exit exhaust and single plane intake will let me take advantage of these good flowing heads.

Anyone else here running e tops or any other brand header? Curious if they found any improvement in performance with them as cmi claims.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Angle plug heads

Do you still have the 270 if so probably no improvement however the big deal going on here is you have by passed the y pipes and the transom pass thru that is the real bottle neck in the exhaust and with those heads you may see a 3----------------4 mph improvement. Post the result's lets see.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Angle plug heads

and post pics.

While I agree, the stock block wont make too much of the exhaust, only a few mph, however, we like pics.

$1900 US is actually not bad for CMI e-tops, I think they list for $2500 in satin. at $1900 that is almost the friends and family price.

did you get tips?

 

[Yukonmuscle]

Re: Angle plug heads

I'm not sure how to post pics on here through my phone but I'll figure it out. I'll take pics while I'm doing my assembly. I was hoping to be doing that this weekend but the wife and kids keep booking up all my time so may have to wait till the following weekend to start assembling the motor.
Cmi says these headers are fairley tight to the stock center bolt valve covers and they can't guarantee they will clear anything else..... Too bad cause I was hoping to put a sheet metal style valve cover on these heads.
I made my own side exit tips and mufflers/baffles last year and will be reusing those. I'm pretty sure I had a thread on here last year about the making of the tips and mufflers.