An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

[Boomyal]

"Boeing is expected to deliver more than 231 wide-body aircraft this year, compared to just over 40 for Airbus"

Boeing is whipping the committee led, socialist consortium.8)

This article is basically about Boeings financial circumstances, but the above statement is contained therein.

 

[jtexas]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

forgot the link, boomer.

Apparently airbus is having a hard time getting their usual government-backed funding.

Since you posted the topic as a question, here's my answer: Yes I think it's an excellent example of capitalism over socialism.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

It's good that Boeing is gaining back some ground on Airbus....
Very good for the Puget Sound as well.......JK

 

[JasonJ]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

It's not about "whipping the socialist consortium", it's about airlines going with proven technology. There is a place for the Airbus, and it will sell, but Boeing has dominated the market with successful safe aircraft for decades. If I was an airline, I would be hard pressed to pass on a reliable craft to try a totally new design. It would be nice if maybe a political spin wasn't put on every damn thing that occurs in this world. I can guarantee that the airlines could give too fat f%cks about righty and lefty crap as long as the righties and lefties keep buying tickets....

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

One could say that this success is fueled by that very powerful motivator: Greed.......
Not that I am saying that, mind you..........JK

 

[PW2]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

Airbus A 380 Jumbo is behind schedule and having problems.

It wasn't too long ago when Airbus was dominating Boeing. They've sold a ton of the A-340's I think it is the only aircraft Jet Blue will fly

I've flown in many of the Airbus planes and they are very stable planes.

Frankly, I have no idea of the relative structures of the companies and their relative political orientation, and what it says about that, but it could be it's just an overreach by an ambitious company trying to rush the 380 out before it was ready. Mistakes happen.

My brother in law works for Boeing, and I am happy they are doing well, but I suspect you may be reading just a touch too much into relatively short term data.

 

[rolmops]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

Airbus was aiming for the sky with the 380.It would have required longer runways and different docking stations.A lot of airports are not ready to retool because of a super size airplane.Many of the airlines that own their own terminals cannot afford to adjust.
That and the development delays caused the switch to Boeing,which decided to stay with relatively smaller planes.
The socialist capitalist thing is mostly a part of a vivid boomyal imagination.

 

[QC]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

Jet Blue has no 340s I think they are all 320s. Many International Airlines want the 380, it is production delays hurting that although even if on schedule they would not have been delivering yet. I know Qantas, Singapore and others defintiely have them on order.

 

[jtexas]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

I really think it is about whipping the socialist consortium.

Not that airlines care whether it's the left wing or the right wing (pun intended), but that the capitalist consortium of boeing and its investors and suppliers are beating the crap out of airbus.

There's nothing about airbus that makes it less safe or reliable than boeing - it's all about initial capital outlay, available engine choices, fuel burn, fitness for a particular mission (range, seating configurations, cargo capacity), delivery schedules, financing. Cockpit and spare parts commonality with existing fleet. Maintenance contracts, spare parts discounts. It's all 100% about the money.

Still, the capitalism vs socialism spin might be more than just spin; Airbus is having a hard time getting the government funding they've been accustomed to. The A380 was developed with a lot of government money.

The A380 will have limited applicability - the economics of operating a plane that size means it will only work in extremely long range high demand markets, but it's ideal for international routes like U.S. - China, where frequency is constrained by treaty. But they've also just announced a new wide-body...so don't count 'em out just yet.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

Airbus was aiming for the sky with the 380.It would have required longer runways and different docking stations.A lot of airports are not ready to retool because of a super size airplane.Many of the airlines that own their own terminals cannot afford to adjust.
That and the development delays caused the switch to Boeing,which decided to stay with relatively smaller planes.
The socialist capitalist thing is mostly a part of a vivid boomyal imagination.

I'm surprised at you rolmops. I thought you were a well informed critical thinker. Airbus would not ever have gotten off the ground (pun intended) if it had not been totally financed by multiple European g'bments. Since the beginning, Airbus would have evaporated if it had not been for continued government funding. As you should know, it has been a continual struggle for Boeing to compete with their commercial airliners, for this reason.

As for the longer runway excuse, that is a load of bullpuckey. When Boeing first built the 747, practically every runway in the world had to be extended and reinforced as well the need for new docking facilities.

They misread the market inspite of increased passenger loads, then built a plane who's nose gear twisted off during landing.

You just hate to admit that the good old USA is superior to anything that has yet been laid down.

 

[rolmops]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

My disagreement with you is not about the viability of the planes.It is about calling it socialist.
You are very right in saying that airbus has always been very heavily subsidized.That however does not make it socialist.
The american farmers are heavily subsidized.Does that make the current administration a socialist one?Or is politically advantageous for them to subsidize and yet not be socialist?
The drug industry gets huge grants(literally billions) for their R&R does that make the bush administration socialist?I think not.
Airbus is the result of four or five european plane builders merging into one huge company in order to compete with the american giant companies.They managed to get huge subsidies,loans and tax breaks,much like the american oil companies got huge tax breaks from Bush.Is Bush a socialist?
When boeing came out with the jumbo,there was a real need for that size of plane because of fast rising travel needs.
The truth is that there is no real need for planes that are bigger than the 747s. Boeing gambled on that reality and won.
By the way,most airports already had the runways needed for 747s,because they needed these runways for B52 bombers
Airbus is in the dumps because they bet on the wrong horse while at the same time being the victim of nationalistic pride and ego of the different nations that are represented in the consortium.
Sorry but socialism is not to blame here.Now if you would have said bureaucracy or nationalism you would have been a lot closer to the truth.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

Thank you, Rolmops.....
For putting that troll to bed....
So to speak.....d

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

We all know how Haut hates a troll.... 8)

 

[Boomyal]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

Whadya mean RF, Haut lives for trolls!:$

 

[jtexas]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

Airbus is France, Spain and Germany. It's a capitalistic enterprise of socialists.

American farmer is American. It's a socialistic enterprise of capitalists.

And btw, you don't get a commercial airliner off the drawing board without a launch customer.

 

[roscoe]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

"The american farmers are heavily subsidized.Does that make the current administration a socialist one?Or is politically advantageous for them to subsidize and yet not be socialist?
The drug industry gets huge grants(literally billions) for their R&R does that make the bush administration socialist?"


YES.

 

[PW2]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

Thanks, QC Jet Blue does indeed fly 320's

The relative weakness of the US dollar vs the Euro might have something to do with it as well.

 

[treedancer]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

Quote jtexas

American farmer is American. It's a socialistic enterprise of capitalists.

Kinda like Wal-mart and Tiff,s.

 

[jtexas]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

The relative weakness of the US dollar vs the Euro might have something to do with it as well.

possible, but...deliveries on an aircraft order placed today begin months (maybe a year or more) in the future. Example, the first delivery against an order placed today for 24 aircraft might be scheduled for June '07, with one or maybe two per month for the following 12 to 24 months; the last delivery might be 2 1/2 years down the road. They won't lock in an exchange rate. Either company might independently hedge by buying futures in the other currency.

BTW delivery price in those contracts is always indexed to some agreed-upon combination of economic factors, which typically include at a minimum a published metals price index and a wage index.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: An example of Capitalism over Socialism?

Can you still light a match to cover a fart on an Airbus?