Alpha one gen II leaking water near hydraulic hoses

[mkane8301]

Hello everyone, I am new to both boating and the forum and am excited to join the community. A friend and I purchased a 1995 glassport 170 at the start of the summer. It is running a mercruiser 3.0LX and an alpha one gen II outdrive. We spent all season getting the engine up and running and did our first water test last weekend. We were a bit disappointed to see water leaking into the bilge through the cutout at the very bottom of the transom where the hydraulic hoses exit the boat.

I am looking for advice on what could be causing this leak. I have seen many sources that mention it could be the bellows (the ones that are installed are likely the original ones, making them 30 years old) but I was wondering if it's possible that the leak could be coming from somewhere else since, to my knowledge, those hoses are not actually routed through any of the bellows on the alpha one. I have attached a still frame of the leak as well as a link to the best video I could take of the leak in the tight space.

I am hoping that if it's possible that the leak is coming from somewhere else I could avoid dismantling my entire outdrive to replace the bellows, at least for a little while to test the engine and the outdrive in the water. However, if that is the most likely source of the problem I am more than happy to do so.

New video by Matthew Kane

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,...... Welcome Aboard,....... There is a gasket under the trim line manifold, outside, under the drive, that could be the problem,....
But, if the bellows are original, it's about 20 years past their useful expected life,.....
And, the drive should be pulled annually for inspection, 'n service,....

 

[Grub54891]

I agree with Bondo. I changed all the bellows, shift cable and gimbal. Still leaked. The trim manifold gasket was the culprit. But now I know everything is going to be perfect for years to come. Don't scrimp on aftermarket bellows, I worked at a place that used them a lot and they would come back after a few years with issues.

 

[crazy charlie]

As Bondo mentioned, the drive should be pulled for servicing and having the drive off will give you a better perspective of the bell housing and bellows condition which are surely ready to be replaced.Transom kit would be a good idea.There is also a rubber washer under each acorn zinc and another rubber gasket under the waffle zinc.If you are just looking for a temporary fix before you do the correct repair/servicing you can always dry it up and put some silicone sealant where its leaking and run a bead around the drive hose manifold.Just a temp fix that may help you isolate the leak.Charlie

 

[Scott06]

I agree with Bondo. I changed all the bellows, shift cable and gimbal. Still leaked. The trim manifold gasket was the culprit. But now I know everything is going to be perfect for years to come. Don't scrimp on aftermarket bellows, I worked at a place that used them a lot and they would come back after a few years with issues.

100% my original bellows on my 2004 lasted 18 years, exhaust was torn bit shift and driveshaft did not leak... Why use anything but OEM unless you are selling the boat.

To the OP as mentioned drop the trim manifold and replace the gasket. If the bellows haven't been done the winter offseason is a great time to do it.

 

[mkane8301]

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies. I will take a look into replacing that gasket below the manifold and take it back to the ramp and see if that helps with the leak.

If the leak is in fact fixed by replacing that gasket I will still look into replacing the bellows in the off-season due to their age. I was looking at different kits available and did not see any non-OEM ones with reliable reviews so I have no issue shelling out a bit more money for a part that will actually do the job, especially when it is so critical.

Charlie, I am not familiar with the zinc anode terminology and want to clarify where these parts with seals are. Is the waffle zinc the one that covers the trim manifold? I know there is a gasket in there. I do not know off the top of my head where the acorn zincs are.

There is also a rubber washer under each acorn zinc and another rubber gasket under the waffle zinc

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,..... The big zinc is on the hyd. manifold,.....
The acorns are on the outside ends of the 2 bottom transom housing bolts,....

 

[crazy charlie]

Charlie, I am not familiar with the zinc anode terminology and want to clarify where these parts with seals are. Is the waffle zinc the one that covers the trim manifold? I know there is a gasket in there. I do not know off the top of my head where the acorn zincs are.

Get to the lowest part of your bell housing assembly outside your stern.There are 2 Frankenstein neck bolts, one on each side.They are made of zinc.Unscrew them and replace them and make sure you install the rubber washer under each one.If your boat does not have these zinc's ,gone from wear down,then you will see threaded bolts to install the acorns on. In between the acorns should be a waffle zinc.Mounts onto the manifold that you are needing to remove for gasket replacement.This zinc also has a rubber gasket.These are sacrificial zincs that are designed to take the brunt of the damage when stray underwater current is wanting to attack and damage your drive and housing when your rig is in the water. If you strictly trailer your boat then the use of the zincs are waaaay less important but you still need to have them and their gaskets on.Hope this explains it and if it doesn't then ask whatever questions you have .Charlie

 

[mkane8301]

I have the zinc and manifold removed and there was a little bit of water in the cavity, so it's confirmed that water is getting in there through some means. The gasket that I pulled off seems to be in perfectly good condition though, so I am wondering if it's possible it could be trickling down from somewhere else. I will replace the gasket and take it back to the ramp to see if it still leaks I suppose.

I am still unable to find the acorn zincs or bolts with rubber washers towards the bottom of the bell housing. I looked online and saw where they are supposed to be but I don't see the same features on my outdrive. Is it possible that they aren't included on my generation?

 

[tank1949]

Hello everyone, I am new to both boating and the forum and am excited to join the community. A friend and I purchased a 1995 glassport 170 at the start of the summer. It is running a mercruiser 3.0LX and an alpha one gen II outdrive. We spent all season getting the engine up and running and did our first water test last weekend. We were a bit disappointed to see water leaking into the bilge through the cutout at the very bottom of the transom where the hydraulic hoses exit the boat.

I am looking for advice on what could be causing this leak. I have seen many sources that mention it could be the bellows (the ones that are installed are likely the original ones, making them 30 years old) but I was wondering if it's possible that the leak could be coming from somewhere else since, to my knowledge, those hoses are not actually routed through any of the bellows on the alpha one. I have attached a still frame of the leak as well as a link to the best video I could take of the leak in the tight space.

I am hoping that if it's possible that the leak is coming from somewhere else I could avoid dismantling my entire outdrive to replace the bellows, at least for a little while to test the engine and the outdrive in the water. However, if that is the most likely source of the problem I am more than happy to do so.

New video by Matthew Kane

photos.app.goo.gl

ROT

 

[Bt Doctur]

look at the gasket at the 12:00 position, you`ll see corrosion there
the button zincs / acorn zincs that were refereed to are not on your unit,

 

[04fxdwgi25]

Check around your tiller arm (steering arm) and see if there is any sign of water / rust / maybe sediments from evaporated water. If there is, is is not uncommon for that seal to be bad on the steering pin, and the leak will find it's way down

 

[mkane8301]

We took the boat out yesterday after replacing both gaskets on the trim manifold and everything seemed alright when the outdrive was partially submerged, which I think is an improvement from last time.

We got the boat fully off the trailer this time and unfortunately a new leak started higher up on what looked to be around the driveshaft bellows. Looks like replacing those will be the next step, which isn't all too big of a surprise given their age.

Thanks for your advice and input, everyone!

 

[mkane8301]

Just finished up the bellows job last night. Ended up finding that the brass fitting on the shift cable had cracked and needed replaced as well. It was a bit more tedious that I thought it would be to get it all finished up, but after seeing what a new set of bellows is supposed to look/feel like I am very glad that it is done. I was also able to determine that the shift cable bellow was likely the culprit of the original leak.

Now I know this is opening up and entirely new can of worms, but I'm now concerned about the integrity of my transom and was wondering if that could also be a part of this leaking issue as well. I'll describe what I observe and also attach a quick video, but I know that an issue like this can be hard to diagnose over the Internet.

From the outside, everything appears perfectly normal. The hammer test (which seems to not be accepted as accurate when reading various opinions) doesn't seem to hit any obviously dead or soft spots and there is absolutely zero flex on the outdrive when it is attached to the boat and I put my weight on it. However, from the inside, it is an entirely different story. It appears that the fiberglass on the inside has entirely delaminated and has a large amount of flex when I push down on any point. After a lot of contemplating I did a quick drill test about 1" deep and I didn't even get any wood shavings out, which seems extremely alarming if not entirely impossible. There seems to just be a void behind the thin layer of black fiberglass. I've attached a video of the flexing to demonstrate. You can even hear cracking sounds when I press around.

I'm very worried this might spell the end of this boat project for me because I can't afford the cost of a transom replacement. The only reason I hesitate to call it completely over is the fact that from the outside there are not visible signs I have seen in other examples of rotten transoms online and the outdrive seemingly being securely mounted in place. I'm curious what you all think.

 

[Grub54891]

Oh boy. Yeah you have a rotten transom. On mine it was rotted but still felt fairly firm. I did replace the rotted transom and that led to the stringers and entire floor, carpet And foam flotation. It’s a fairly big job but I know it’ll last me for years.

 

[Scott06]

Just finished up the bellows job last night. Ended up finding that the brass fitting on the shift cable had cracked and needed replaced as well. It was a bit more tedious that I thought it would be to get it all finished up, but after seeing what a new set of bellows is supposed to look/feel like I am very glad that it is done. I was also able to determine that the shift cable bellow was likely the culprit of the original leak.

Now I know this is opening up and entirely new can of worms, but I'm now concerned about the integrity of my transom and was wondering if that could also be a part of this leaking issue as well. I'll describe what I observe and also attach a quick video, but I know that an issue like this can be hard to diagnose over the Internet.

From the outside, everything appears perfectly normal. The hammer test (which seems to not be accepted as accurate when reading various opinions) doesn't seem to hit any obviously dead or soft spots and there is absolutely zero flex on the outdrive when it is attached to the boat and I put my weight on it. However, from the inside, it is an entirely different story. It appears that the fiberglass on the inside has entirely delaminated and has a large amount of flex when I push down on any point. After a lot of contemplating I did a quick drill test about 1" deep and I didn't even get any wood shavings out, which seems extremely alarming if not entirely impossible. There seems to just be a void behind the thin layer of black fiberglass. I've attached a video of the flexing to demonstrate. You can even hear cracking sounds when I press around.

I'm very worried this might spell the end of this boat project for me because I can't afford the cost of a transom replacement. The only reason I hesitate to call it completely over is the fact that from the outside there are not visible signs I have seen in other examples of rotten transoms online and the outdrive seemingly being securely mounted in place. I'm curious what you all think.

Is the fiberglass bulged out an inch? Not sure how you wouldn’t hit rotten wood shavings . i would cut back the fiber glass and see what’s behind it . Possible it delaminated and wood is ok but is against the odds.

 

[mkane8301]

Well, shoot. That's definitely the response I was expecting, but it doesn't make it any easier to hear. After the holiday I will cut out a small portion of the fiberglass and take a look at the wood (if there's any left).

If the rot has consumed the whole transom I know that I can't afford the cost of all the materials from the estimates I've seen online. I got this boat used and didn't pay a lot for it, most of the cost has just been time and effort over this summer. Has anyone had any experience with those "liquid transom" products? I know that it's not even close to the same as doing a proper replacement, but I'm just trying to figure if there's a way I can get at least a season of enjoyment out of the boat given it's condition. I obviously don't want to do anything unsafe, but I would also be totally fine with taking the route of a cheaper/less permanent solution if it can buy me just a little time.

 

[tank1949]

Well, shoot. That's definitely the response I was expecting, but it doesn't make it any easier to hear. After the holiday I will cut out a small portion of the fiberglass and take a look at the wood (if there's any left).

If the rot has consumed the whole transom I know that I can't afford the cost of all the materials from the estimates I've seen online. I got this boat used and didn't pay a lot for it, most of the cost has just been time and effort over this summer. Has anyone had any experience with those "liquid transom" products? I know that it's not even close to the same as doing a proper replacement, but I'm just trying to figure if there's a way I can get at least a season of enjoyment out of the boat given it's condition. I obviously don't want to do anything unsafe, but I would also be totally fine with taking the route of a cheaper/less permanent solution if it can buy me just a little time.

Having totally replaced a twin MC transom and twin partial transom, I can state that it will be a job, if you have the proper tools!!! If you don't have tools, drag boat to a scrap yard. If you saltwater fish, you should be able to sell for scrap or another fisherman will tow it offshore to make another reef. As I understand, you could pour if transom was for OB and NOT I/Os. ALL metal has to be removed for a full rebuild. You will need a place to store all the metals (mark every piece (trust me). You can get by with electrical grinders but Air Grinders with a compressor works better. An air chisel to remove rotten wood followed by a sander to make a smooth surface for re-glassing. I used epoxies because it is more forgiving during the cure time. Polyester resins work well but you must calculate hardener with ambient temperatures, or you will have a nightmare. Use heat lamps to assist. Glass from inside and avoid damaging outer shin (the pretty side) . Make sure replacement plywood or synthetic is Flat. When completed make sure the layers and final product is parallel. There should be plenty of web-sites on how to rebuild an I/O transom. Just search. Good luck

 

[Scott06]

Well, shoot. That's definitely the response I was expecting, but it doesn't make it any easier to hear. After the holiday I will cut out a small portion of the fiberglass and take a look at the wood (if there's any left).

If the rot has consumed the whole transom I know that I can't afford the cost of all the materials from the estimates I've seen online. I got this boat used and didn't pay a lot for it, most of the cost has just been time and effort over this summer. Has anyone had any experience with those "liquid transom" products? I know that it's not even close to the same as doing a proper replacement, but I'm just trying to figure if there's a way I can get at least a season of enjoyment out of the boat given it's condition. I obviously don't want to do anything unsafe, but I would also be totally fine with taking the route of a cheaper/less permanent solution if it can buy me just a little time.

The products like sea cast that are poured in are fine replacements once the wood is hogged out. You can find some vids where people do them cutting the wood out with a chainsaw, issue is you need to pour it in from the top which is easiest done on an outboard boat.

you Likely can sell the engine outdrive and trailer if you put a little effort into it

 

[mkane8301]

Got the chance to cut a bit into the transom from the inside this evening and confirmed the worst. Anything that was once wooden in here has completely turned into dust. Very glad that we had enough other things preoccupying us to fix during the season that we didn't get the chance to try and take it out before we caught this problem.

I might try and look into pricing out all the materials for a full fiberglass rebuild but I still think it's going to be cost prohibitive, at least for now. I've watched a bunch of people doing rebuilds online but most are for outbound motors where the back of the boat is completely flat. Does having the more "cutout" for the I/O make the job any more difficult?