Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

[frantically relaxing]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

If the drive is off the boat but othewise assembled, do a pump test--

First, determine correct shaft rotation. Then get out a power drill, cordless preferred since there's water involved--

Attach the drill to the top of the shaft, set it for the correct direction; attach some muffs and water pressure to the foot, then spin the shaft with the drill . You should get oodles of water from the outlet on top of the pump.

NOTE, if your drill don't have enough poop to turn the shaft, then do it by hand with some vice grips (be sure the protect the splines!) you won't get a LOT of water, but if you get ANY, that's a sign the pump is working ok.

If you DO get water, then the pump is fine, and you have something else going on-- like, is the connection sleeve that connects the pump outlet and drive inlet in good condition, or is it missing even?

If you DON'T get water, something is blocking the flow to the pump.

Pull the pump off, then run water thru the muffs again to make sure water is getting thru the passages.

If NO, there's a blockage in the foot you need to find and fix--

If YES, then it's possible you have a plate or wrong gasket or ? between the foot and pump that's keeping water from entering the pump...

hope this helps!

 

[cavscout35]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!!!
Will be back at it tomorrow!!

 

[cavscout35]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

OK, here's where I'm at. Just got finished reassembly and did the double check that Frantically suggested. The water pump absolutely flows water like a boss when the driveshaft is rotated clockwise, problem is I have a LH rotation motor and drive (double checked). When rotating the driveshaft ccw the pump blows bubbles out of the intake, essentially working properly in reverse. So here's the question, I have been using Sierra kit # 18-3320, Is there a different part # for a left hander? That's pretty much all I can come up with.

 

[dubs283]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

problem is I have a LH rotation motor and drive (double checked). When rotating the driveshaft ccw the pump blows bubbles out of the intake, essentially working properly in reverse. So here's the question, I have been using Sierra kit # 18-3320, Is there a different part # for a left hander? That's pretty much all I can come up with.

a left hand rotation engine is standard rotation and is what you need for a sterndrive engine - the crank turns clockwise when looking at it from the front, counter-clockwise from the aft (hence left handed)

counter-rotated drives still have the input driveshaft rotate clockwise when looking at it

if you look at the engine coupler through the bell housing (aft - looking towards the front of the boat) and a helper turns the engine over it should rotate counter-clockwise - this is a standard rotation, left hand rotation engine

if the engine turns clockwise, it is a counter rotation, right hand engine - then you have a problem

 

[cavscout35]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

a left hand rotation engine is standard rotation and is what you need for a sterndrive engine - the crank turns clockwise when looking at it from the front, counter-clockwise from the aft (hence left handed)

counter-rotated drives still have the input driveshaft rotate clockwise when looking at it

if you look at the engine coupler through the bell housing (aft - looking towards the front of the boat) and a helper turns the engine over it should rotate counter-clockwise - this is a standard rotation, left hand rotation engine

if the engine turns clockwise, it is a counter rotation, right hand engine - then you have a problem

Looking up into the upper part of the outdrive(i have the lower off) I can see the gear that the lower driveshaft fits into turns counter clockwise.

 

[cavscout35]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

Looking up into the upper part of the outdrive(i have the lower off) I can see the gear that the lower driveshaft fits into turns counter clockwise.

However, when the lower drive shaft turns counter clockwise the impeller works in reverse. If I turn the lower driveshaft clockwise it pumps water. I'm confused.

 

[dubs283]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

However, when the lower drive shaft turns counter clockwise the impeller works in reverse. If I turn the lower driveshaft clockwise it pumps water. I'm confused.

im not talking about the drive - its the enggine that rotates left handed (looking from the back)

keep in mind when you look at something rotating counter clockwise, e.g. the engine coupler, the shaft that couples to it (drive input shaft) will be rotating clockwise as you look at it (off the boat)

the same goes true for the drive halves, as the input shaft rotates clockwise looking at it (like it should) the upper driveshaft will rotate counterclockwise as you look at it from the bottom (drive halves split) - therefore when the drive halves are mated, the lower driveshaft will rotate clockwise (as it should) thus turning the water pump correctly and pumping water

just have a helper turn the engine over and wach the engine coupler thorugh the bell housing, as long as the coupler rotates counter-clockwise you are fine

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

OK you seem a little confused here. Try this: with the lower on the bench, turn the lower shift shaft all the way clockwise. That will put it into forward gear. Turn the prop COUNTERCLOCKWISE. The prop should lock into gear, and if you continue to turn the prop shaft the input shaft will turn counterclockwise, it is now turning BACKWARDS. If it does you are OK.

 

[cavscout35]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

ok, now I am truly perplexed. I have had the pump off 4 times since yesterday, I have talked to parts houses, manufacturers, mechanics, and tech supports of various natures. I really dont think this is a unique problem. When looking at the motor from the front, and cranking, the MOTOR rotates clockwise, so from the rear counter clockwise. Looking up into the UPPER part of the out drive the gear rotates counter clockwise, spinning the shaft in the lower the same. If I crank the shaft in the lower ccw, the water pump blows bubbles out the intake (on the lower) if I spin it clockwise (the opposite direction if installed) it pumps water like a champ. W-T-F OVER???

H-E-L-P!!!!!!

 

[cavscout35]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

P.S. :mad-new::facepalm: Apparently the same waterpump and impeller are used on ALL Alpha 1 gen 1 regardless of the rotation. This is what has been told to me time and again by various manufacturers AND parts distributors AND mechanics. Who wants a 1987 Marathon with MYSTERY DRIVE???

 

[Don S]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

Your engine turns, CCW if you are looking at the flywheel, that is standard rotation.
Below shows direction of the vertical shaft of the lower unit.

 

[cavscout35]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

PPS, just talked to Ebasic power in NC and got yelled at for working on my own boat and asking a tech question. THANKS!! now I know where NOT to send people for parts and help.

 

[cavscout35]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

Your engine turns, CCW if you are looking at the flywheel, that is standard rotation.
Below shows direction of the vertical shaft of the lower unit.

Mr. Don,
I LOVE YOU!!! Thanks!!! I looked at that pic you sent and just said "To hell with it" put it back together, lowered it into a big tub of water, and started it. It worked. If youre ever in South FL, look me up, we will fish and the beer is on me!! THANKS AGAIN!!!

 

[cavscout35]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

AND THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR INPUT AND ADVICE!!!
(We'll see how long this one lasts!! (fingers crossed, knocks on wood)

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

Did you cross your fingers clockwise, or counterclockwise? (oh, I guess it depends on if you are looking up at your fingers, or down!), oh, wth!!! I have a digital watch anyways..... what is "clockwise"?? haha... Anyways, glad you got it figured out....best of luck and happy boating! (You did finally realize that when you are looking "up" into the upper housing, the rotation of that gear is CCW, but if you were looking "down" at it (like say, if you took off the upper cover plate), it is rotating properly CW like all drives do....just plain physics...:lol

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

Was also thinking about why you have had to replace the pump three times in row... (did you resolve that issue?). Maybe by you thinking the pump shaft was supposed to rotate CCW, you may have biased (i.e., "bent") the impeller blades the wrong way and caused problems when the pump tried to rotate the impeller the proper (CW) direction. I know people here have said that even if biased wrong, the impeller vanes will eventually bend the right way in operation. I dont like to leave that to chance (or extra stress on the vanes) though, and always follow the guidance of the instruction manual during pump case installation (i.e., rotating the vertical drive shaft/impeller CW while setting the pump case in place). Works every time. How is yours operating on the muffs/in the water now? KB

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

The engine always rotates the same direction as a Standard Drill motor for all OutDrives.
CounterClockwise, looking Forward, into the power takeoff end of the motor.
Clockwise looking Aft from the front of the motor.

The OutDrive Horizontal Input Shaft, and U-Joints, turn Clockwise looking Aft at the OutDrive.
The OutDrive Vertical Drive Shaft, and the Water Pump Impeller, Turn Clockwise looking Down. (CCW looking up.)

The Lower Unit, Prop Shaft Turns Clockwise, looking forward, in Forward Gear for a Right-Hand Drive.
The Lower Unit, Prop Shaft Turns CounterClockwise, looking forward, in Forward Gear for a Left-Hand Drive. (Counter rotation.)

Everything turns the same direction in Both OutDrives except the prop shaft.
The Counter Rotation/Left-Hand Drive is just a Normal lower unit (With some Changes) operating in Reverse Gear.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

Did you cross your fingers clockwise, or counterclockwise? (oh, I guess it depends on if you are looking up at your fingers, or down!)...

Crossing your fingers is the same no matter which way you look at them!
A Nut goes ClockWise onto a Threaded Rod no matter which end you put it on. Righty, Tighty! :lol:

 

[MarkSee]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

A Nut goes ClockWise onto a Threaded Rod no matter which end you put it on. Righty, Tighty!

....assuming it's not left handed threads.....

Mark

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: Alpha One gen 1 water impeller "issues"

Crossing your fingers is the same no matter which way you look at them!
A Nut goes ClockWise onto a Threaded Rod no matter which end you put it on. Righty, Tighty! :lol:

.....or a left handed finger-cross.:facepalm: