Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

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swozzy

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HI everyone, from way downunder in Australia :cool: . This appears to be one of the best allround forums I have sen so here I am to test you out :D <br />Hopefully someone can help me with this one, rather strange actually.<br />Have an Alpha leg on our Hartley that we purchased a little while ago. Now I find the unijoints and gimble getting rather noisy, so pull the drive to have a bo peep. You guessed it all very dry. So anyway, can grease up unijoints no problem for now and keep them going for a while :) , but the Gimble is another question.<br />The grease point that I thought should be on the Starboard side of leg for greasing the Gimble is not there!! In fact I can not even find a nipple hole that it would have been in? So anyway, can anyone assist me here on how I can grease up the Gimble or measurements as to where the Grease nipple should be? I am assuming there is a gallery behind there somewhere that travels up into the Gimble housing so if I can drill and tap a nipple in where it should be, I may get away with it ;)
 
Don S

Don S

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

Well Jay, I can probably pass the test. Even though you don't have listed if it's an Alpha I or an Alpha I Gen II :D <br />Either way on this question, on the starboard side of the transom shield (outside of boat) next to transom about half way up is a grease zirk that goes to the gimbal bearing.<br />Let me know which drive you have and I can give you a link to the Mercruiser service manual. It has all the neat answers in it.<br /><br />Here is a picture showing the zirk on the Gen II drive, the Alpha is similar.<br /><br />
Gimbal%20bearing%20zirk.png
 
S

swozzy

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

Thank you Don for the Reply.<br />I just knew someone was going to ask me that question!! I'm not 100% sure which one it is to be honest, I think it is the Alpha 1 and it is hooked up to the 165 straightline 6 cyl chev engine. <br />I have these numbers that are stamped on portside of upper leg where the decal use to be and maybe of help 5400560.<br />Your pic is exactly the nipple(Zirk) I am looking for and as said it is just not there?? not even a hole, Very strange.
 
Don S

Don S

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

What year boat do you have, maybe that will help. The serial number you gave is for a 260 drive (V8) which won't work on an inline 6. May have a different upper housing, but something isn't right.
 
S

swozzy

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

Hmmmm Ok just my luck :confused: <br />As to the year of the boat now it's getting hard, it is a timber professionally built Hartley and at a guess I would suspect around the 1976 - 80 mark and this is only a guess on the design of the boat.<br />The transom shield does look a bit different to your Pic, it has more of a cutout area at the bottom back towards the Gimble ring if that makes sense to you :rolleyes: does to me but I can see it ;)
 
uaw9fan

uaw9fan

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

I worked on an old 76 silverline a couple of years ago.It had no grease zerk of any kind.Luckily I was replacing the whole gimbal bearing, so I greased it before I put it in.<br />When you look at your bearing's outer race do you see two slots,one on either side?<br />If so you can turn the inner bearing until it meets the slots and comes out of the race, then grease it by hand.But then you will definitely need to realign it once it is back in. Hope you have an alignment tool.
 
S

swozzy

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

Ok thanks so far for all replies :) <br />Now this is what I have been able to workout ;) <br />This leg appears to be a 1978 - 81 165 outdrive unit.<br />Now from my investigations this 'no grease point' is becoming a mystery and I would certainly prefer not pulling the bearing yet until I can at least grease it up and hear what happens.<br />When looking at the bearing the 2 slots are not viewable, I suspect it maybe on the engine side instead as I have read somewhere that this can be the case sometimes.<br />No, I do not have a lineup tool and at this stage prefer not to get one if I can help it, anything downunder with Mercruiser stamped on it is like buying Gold with the costs.<br />If I could locate the Grease gallery which I suspect must be in there somewhere :confused: I would drill and tap for a grease nipple and give it a go, just have to figure where and if it is actually there before drilling.<br />Any ideas all :rolleyes:
 
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seahorse5

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

the original Mercruisers back in the '60's and early '70's did not have gimble grease fittings. Back then you even had to shim the gimble bearing to keep in in place, along with a snap ring.<br /><br />The ungreasable gimble bearings had a green seal area, and the greasable ones had a red seal along with a hole in the outer race that had to be lined up with the greasing tube. Merc soon came out with the gimble bearing and retainer assembly with the tolerance ring, which is used today.
 
S

swozzy

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

Thanks Seahorse,<br />On further checking of the Gimble in boat there is no evidence of a snap ring at all..it certainly appears the drive should be a 78-81 but even if the earlier 165, I thought the snap ring system was on the Pre-alpha but could be wrong.<br />To add to this problem I now have a complete Seloc workshop manual that covers 1960 - 1981 and nowhere does it show or say there is not a grease option for Gimble. This drive has all grease points as shown except the one I want on starboard side.<br />This is starting to drive me nuts :mad: and does not make sense.<br />Looks like I may have to try and pull the bearing and find a replacement, don't look forward to trying to get it out, looks like it has been there for quite sometime ;) and can not tell the seal colour..<br />Will see what else comes along on here before tomorrow Aussie time (now 8pm)and will sleep on it :eek:
 
T

Trent

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

Like Seahorse said... Sounds to me you have the early version (built before 1973) that DID NOT have provisions to grease the gimble bearing. You have to remove the bearing to grease it. <br /><br /><br /> Grease packing tool <br /><br /> Gimble Bearing Removal
 
S

swozzy

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

Thank you to all that have replied. :) <br />Damn and that is exactly what I did not want to do, 'O'well these things are sent to try us they say.<br />Is it possible I have a later model leg on an old model Gimble housing? I ask this because everything else on the actual leg is definitely the later version of the 165 :confused: .<br />Now the fun begins in getting this bearing out with limited tools as all my tools are back home in another state :( <br />Perhaps I just make some calls and see what a dealer would charge to R&R the bearing and lineup, the rest I can do ;)
 
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swozzy

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

PS; Thank you Trent on the links, very useful for a next time maybe, may not be worth my trouble finding, locating or purchasing the tools at this stage for this job..!!
 
T

Trent

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

Is it possible I have a later model leg on an old model Gimble housing? I ask this because everything else on the actual leg is definitely the later version of the 165 .<br />______________________________________<br /><br /><br />Yep.. Very possible.<br /><br /> web page
 
K

KRS

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

Can you take a picture and post it for us?
 
S

swozzy

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

Yes I can take a pic no problem, what in particular do you want in the pic as the leg is currently off the Gimble housing.<br /><br />Just for interest..!!<br />I have made a few phone calls to some marine service agents, the one closest to my home is the best bet so far, and they have always been very fair in my dealings with them. <br />The cost of bearing R&R will all depend on how long it takes to get this old bearing out. Like they say it could take 5 minutes or 2 hours just never know with them and I can agree with that comment..!!<br />Cost of a new complete Quicksilver Bearing here in OZ is around AU$180 - AU$200 (approx. US$130 - US$150)and so far no one here knows of any aftermarket bearing available here that will do the job :( So the job could cost anything from AU$250 if straight forward and about AU$350 if takes 2 hours to do. Will have it done next week as they totally full with work now.
 
K

KRS

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

There are a number of aftermarket legs out there that are less expensive to purchase than an OEM unit, however there may be differences in construction as you have found.<br /><br />You mentioned a different shape in the housing than DonS picture showed, so I thought it may help to see what you have.<br /><br />By the way, DonS is an absolute pro, stick with the advice and it'll get figured out.
 
S

swozzy

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

OK, let see how this all goes :cool: <br />I have taken 4 pics for those that are interested.<br /><br />Port side of Gimble<br />
PortsideGimble.JPG
<br /><br />Starboard side of Gimble as you can see no Grease point :( <br />
StarboardGimble.JPG
<br /><br />Closeup of Starboard side<br />
CloseupStarboad.JPG
<br /><br />and lucky last is the actual Gimble bearing shot for interest, as can be easily seen one very dry bearing..!!<br />
Gimblebearing.JPG
<br /><br />Will let youknow how it all goes with the Marine centre this week. Decided that is the easy way this time around.
 
Don S

Don S

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

You need a new bearing, not just grease. No amount of grease is going to cure a rusted bearing.<br />If you don't replace it, it can lock up, freeze to the shaft, spin in the housing and destroy the housing. If it comes apart, the shaft flopping around can break things and destroy the coupler in the process.
 
Bt Doctur

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

that sure looks like an early version that did not have the grease fitting and the bearing was updated to a later style bearing.best option is to replace with a new unit. save the old ring and make a greasing tool from it.
 
S

swozzy

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Re: Alpha Gimble Grease point missing??!!

Yep, I'm convinced it is to be replaced, just a pain that I can not do this one :( 'O' well the Marine services are there for people who can not do their own and for the one's like me that get stuck from time to time :D <br />Yes, I'm convinced now it is an old style Gimbal housing with a later 165 leg on it at least the leg matches up to my workshop manual :) Should be happy with that Eh!! the leg is the real complicated part that a manual is very handy to have.<br />Now that is a good thought, keep the old ring as a grease tool, I think I will just do that and each season when pulling drive to do unijoints etc, Remove bearing to and re-grease that has to help a bit ;)
 
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