Almost back together, but a shifter issue

[ScottinAZ]

Ok, after a bit of a hiatus waiting for exhaust parts, I have the 120 in my boat back together and tuned. running great now and no water in the oil from a burned out riser. Give it two pumps of throttle, and it starts right up, happy as a clam with this. \


now for the issue. Installed the drive today, and cannot get out of forward gear. Lower cable works great when not engaged with the drive, but with the drive installed, its stuck in drive. This is with the upper end completely loose, just manually working the cable end (have not adjusted the cable yet, as its jammed....)

I did have the lower unit off the drive, so I need to check that the intermediate shaft is properly aligned with the splines in the lower, but if this was not the case, I would not have drive, corrrect? (intermediate shaft lines up great with the mate in the transom, no issues there).

Other than something in the shifter bottoming out when the drive is installed, what could cause this?

(as a note, with the drive OFF, I have full range of motion on all cables, forward and reverse, just when I install the lower, I get bupkis)

 

[Rick Stephens]

Hey Scott, this is an Alpha 1 I am guessing. I would pull the drive back off before something breaks and bench test the brass intermediate shaft. It should face straight forward to lock up the prop CCW. And should turn almost to 9 oclock to lock up in reverse - CW. No way I would try and figure this out while still on the boat.

Personally, I will not ever install a lower while the upper is installed on the boat. So so so much easier with the lower in a simple parallel fixture to drop the upper down while maintaining all in forward gear. Also much easier to do and not tear up the output seal on the upper.

 

[ScottinAZ]

Hey Scott, this is an Alpha 1 I am guessing. I would pull the drive back off before something breaks and bench test the brass intermediate shaft. It should face straight forward to lock up the prop CCW. And should turn almost to 9 oclock to lock up in reverse - CW. No way I would try and figure this out while still on the boat.

Personally, I will not ever install a lower while the upper is installed on the boat. So so so much easier with the lower in a simple parallel fixture to drop the upper down while maintaining all in forward gear. Also much easier to do and not tear up the output seal on the upper.

pre alpha MC-1 drive.

I had originally pulled the drive for servicing the bellows, and other issues as the boat has sat for about a decade and a half. Everything went together nicely, but the shifter is whacked. I will be pulling it in the morning, as its hot as hell outside in AZ, and there is nothing in a bind. I can move the shifter a couple of degrees each direction with ease, but not in/out of gear. I plan on starting at the back and working my way forward, as literally EVERYTHING was changed including the shift quadrant. I did put it all back the way it was before, however, I am starting to realize that it was all wrong to begin with (original quadrant worn out and would not shift at all....)

 

[Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1]

Did you separate the two halves of the drive? If so, did you have the lower half in forward gear the entire time the two halves are mated back together? You do that by turning the splined shift shaft of the lower half CW while turning the prop CCW until it locks. That will be forward gear. You have to hold pressure on the propeller CCW while mating the two halves back keeping the shift shaft of the upper half straight fore and aft. Then the entire drive has to also be held in forward gear when you slide and bolt it back up to the bellhousing, while the shifer at the helm is in forward. IF it gets bumped out of gear, you have to stop and get it back in gear before continuing.

 

[ScottinAZ]

Did you separate the two halves of the drive? If so, did you have the lower half in forward gear the entire time the two halves are mated back together? You do that by turning the splined shift shaft of the lower half CW while turning the prop CCW until it locks. That will be forward gear. You have to hold pressure on the propeller CCW while mating the two halves back keeping the shift shaft of the upper half straight fore and aft. Then the entire drive has to also be held in forward gear when you slide and bolt it back up to the bellhousing, while the shifer at the helm is in forward. IF it gets bumped out of gear, you have to stop and get it back in gear before continuing.

I separated the two halves of the drive to service the water pump. When the shift shaft is pointed straight forward, the drive is in "forward". however, I cannot get it to do anything other than that with the cable. I will pull the drive in the morning to ensure I have forward and reverse in the drive. that will at least tell me what side of the system the issue is on. Stupidly I did not check for neutral and reverse when I had the drive off. I was extra careful in making sure that the drive was in forward when assembling the drive to the transom, and it mated up beautifully. Its probably something simple, but at this point I dont know what. When the drive is off, the cable works great. install the drive, and nothing

 

[Bt Doctur]

When the shift shaft is pointed straight forward, the drive is in "forward". however, I cannot get it to do anything other than that with the cable. I will pull the drive in the morning to ensure I have forward and reverse in the drive. that will at least tell me what side of the system the

With the drive removed and you standing in the back of the drive with the shoe in a straight line in Fwd the prop is locked CCW, neutral to the left to about 10"30 further left to about 9:30 ish is reverse and the prop locks CW

 

[ScottinAZ]

Ill be checking this in the morning. I may have it set up backwards. However, I set it up in "forward" by checking the rotation of the prop. Leading edge has the prop turning clockwise as standing behind the boat facing the transom. I got 3 props with the boat, all pitched the same, so I doubt that all 3 could be wrong....

ETA:

I checked to be sure, and yes, the prop rotates CLOCKWISE from the back of the boat in forward as set up. I need to check the engine rotation to be sure, but what are the chances of all three props that came with the boat being "backwards". when I did the water pump, I set up the shifter to be in FORWARD according to prop direction. If CCW is indeed the correct direction for this drive (MC-1), then we have found the issue.

as a secondary, I dont know what they hit with these props, but I WILL be getting a new one before really using this boat. One of them is "decent" but the other two need to become beer cans.... Skeg is ugly, but I wont be doing anything with that at the moment

 

[Bt Doctur]

Not so much the prop but in Fwd the prop will lock CCW. locking CW means its in reverse

 

[ScottinAZ]

Not so much the prop but in Fwd the prop will lock CCW. locking CW means its in reverse

ok, i must be misunderstanding a bit. When I turn the prop CCW in "forward" it wants to kick out of gear, it will lock when turned into the pitch of the prop. When I reverse the shifter, it will lock when turned into the pitch for reverse. In either position, if the prop is rotated against the pitch, the shifter will go towards neutral and the prop will freewheel. I still need to pull the drive, and see what positions I can get the shifter in, to make sure I didnt put the damn thing together backwards.

when rotating the prop, as looking at the prop, this is how I was determining gears. Of course, if you are looking at the drive from the front of the drive, directions are reversed. Since I have been working behind the prop, I have been using these directions for setup. If I have been turning this backwards, then that would explain the whole thing

 

[Rick Stephens]

Think about it this way - the prop turns clockwise to apply power forward. For the motor to apply that clockwise thrust, the prop cannot freewheel counterclockwise.

So in forward gear, the prop cannot be turned counter-clockwise since it is applying power to turn the prop the other direction.

If in forward gear your prop is locking clockwise, your shift shaft between lower and upper is not clocked correctly.

 

[ScottinAZ]

Think about it this way - the prop turns clockwise to apply power forward. For the motor to apply that clockwise thrust, the prop cannot freewheel counterclockwise.

So in forward gear, the prop cannot be turned counter-clockwise since it is applying power to turn the prop the other direction.

If in forward gear your prop is locking clockwise, your shift shaft between lower and upper is not clocked correctly.

ok, having a bit of a facepalm moment. The lights came on finally. Looks like I need to drop the lower and shift into the "other" gear. By rotating the prop, the driving/driven faces are reversed.....hence to turn it INTO the pitch, with the prop, it has to be in the opposite gear, as the driven face is now driving. This is the only way they will lock. If I were to rotate the engine with it in gear as it sits, I have no doubt that it would be in "Reverse" as the driving/driven faces are proper.... simple screwup on my part, probably take about half an hour to rectify, and I wont even have to drop the whole drive. (yes, it would be "easier" if I did, but I dont have a stand to do it with, the boat will have to stand in for that....)

 

[ScottinAZ]

Ok, sure enough, the lower unit was installed in "reverse' and not "forward". dropped the lower unit slightly, enough to clear the shift linkages, and placed the drive in what I now know is "forward", and everything works as advertised. Even the lower shift cable, which is aftermarket, has things working beautifully via the helm control (Ill do final adjustments a bit later on this morning, but a "put it in gear, and make it fit" adjustment has all three gears with no interference when spinning the prop in neutral, and good lockup in both running gears). Now I need to drain, pressure check, and refill the drive.

Just a simple misunderstanding of how the system worked bit me. Then again, a king spline on the intermediate to lower unit interface would have prevented all of this rigamarole..... I will say the book, which I WAS using was a bit unclear in its description and the illustrations were unclear on what direction to turn the shift shaft. What it appears to show is turning the shaft via their "special tool" what they call "forward", and not either Clockwise or Counter-Clockwise. Getting this simple step wrong two months ago when I buttoned up the drive caused me a bit of headache.....

 

[Rick Stephens]

Merc engineers are one of the great mysteries of the universe. They keep you on your toes.

 

[Scott06]

Good thing is you only gotta learn it once, guarantee you won’t forget it …

 

[ScottinAZ]

Good thing is you only gotta learn it once, guarantee you won’t forget it …

yeah, Im gonna tuck my tail between my legs on this one. Given the history on this boat, it has been the cheapest fix so far.... Once properly explained, it makes perfect sense. It really would have screwed me up if it was a full locking dog set, rather than the ratcheting set that we have in these motors