Air in lower unit?

geriksen

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 15, 2002
Messages
111
Re: Air in lower unit?

I would take it to the dealer and let them pull the drive. If you doubt what they tell you, ask up here on the forum. A good shop won't lead you astray.<br />Have them show you what they find. You could also take pictures like you did with the plug and post it. <br />How old it this boat?<br />That plug looked nasty on the outside. O.K on the running end.
 

C17LoadSmasher

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Messages
152
Re: Air in lower unit?

It's a 2001 boat and engine I bought it a year ago this month. About Dec/Jan of last year, it 'tuliped' a valve in the #3 cylinder. It also detonated the plug as well. The whole electrode was destroyed. The dealer figured whatever happened in caused both. Zero compression when they checked. Mercruiser (after lots of fighting) sent a new head out here and the dealer put it on. Merc wanted to have the head and valves all remachined - TIME. I just bought the damned thing and they wanted to waste more time! Eventually sense prevailed and Merc took the head back and wanted to see what caused the 'tulip' effect. Whatever, I got my new head and she ran like a dream! It just bothers me that I had a 1987 Force 125 on an equally older boat (Bayliner bass boat) and that thing NEVER gave me more than some simple starting trouble. (I replaced the starter, and the rectifier and she ran like a champ!). Sheesh! As a former aircraft mechanic, I will say those things are easier to work on! I'll have the drive looked at hopefully tomorrow.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Chris
 

vinney

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
437
Re: Air in lower unit?

Chris Im lost I bet you are too. I know that you want to repair your own boat. I think thats great. Is this a preformance problem or a noise problem. It seems like this thread has gone on a tangent. I would ask you to start it again. What is your complaint and define you symptoms. I know you dont want to be told to take this to a dealer. You would set this boat on fire befor you did that. I got lost and I would like to help if possible. Vinney
 

C17LoadSmasher

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Messages
152
Re: Air in lower unit?

Vinney, in an attempt to start out at the beginning:<br /><br />Last week (Friday) I went to do my annual lower unit oil change on my 2001 Mercruiser 3.0L w/ Alpha 1 drive. I went and got it all done (yes, I filled it from the bottom to the top), and then decided to change the engine oil. I went to the closest slip (freshwater reservoir) and fired it up and was planning to drive it around to get the oil all nice and warm prior to changing it. Now, about two weeks prior, on a Saturday, one of the flush lines had popped off and was dumping raw water into the bilge. Only after it had filled the bilge up to the bottom of the engine had we realized what happened. I had opened the cowling to discover (and get sprayed with) water in the bilge. It was high enough for the serpentine belt to be slinging water on me. I quickly had my partner kill the engine and the bilge pump was already on, from before I went to pull the cowling.. better safe than sorry. About 10 mins later the water was gone, and we fired the engine back up and went on our merry way for about another few hours on the water and then back to the slip. It ran without a hitch. We also went out the next day and no problems at all. It has not been run since (About 2.5 - 3 weeks). This brings me to last Friday when I put it in the water at the reservoir. I fired it up (it was cranky, it had been sitting a while, so it took about 3 tries) and I noticed a weird noise/vibration. I thought maybe I was hearing things... maybe the old lube was just so thick and nasty it masked this noise before. Not the sort of noise you can hear where it is coming from, it seemed to reverbrate throughout the whole boat, sort of like a vibration. I thought maybe because it was on the trailer or something, so I backed it off, and floated there for a little while, but I still seemed to feel it. I did a few circles about 100' away from the dock, and at higher RPMs it seemed to be gone. Performance of the boat was on par with every other time I had her out. I brought it back in, and took it out of the water (for fear of damaging it). I doublechecked that there was oil in the drive (there was, the nice green color instead of black that I had drained out of it). Nevertheless, I went and changed the engine oil when I got back. Yesterday I went and hooked it up to the hose and ran it. Again, the noise in the boat. Outside the boat, nothing. Wheel side to side, no change in noise. At higher RPMs, it's not there. Now my dilemma - opinions are that it could be the gimbal bearing, or the u-joints, the thinking that the water might have gotten into the bellows from a vent inside the boat and removed the grease or something from the gimbal bearing. They say to remove the outdrive and check it out. I have a shop manual on the way, but I am anxious to get the problem resolved as soon as possible (I am a flyer in the USAF, and I could be flying out soon). I got a few other opinions from other sources, and one is that it could be the bendix on the starter. If the bendix is rusted it may be staying engaged to the flywheel. When the bilge filled the flywheel would have surely been forcing water into the starter motor.<br /><br />Basically, that's it! BTW - I was up in Wilmington, NC when VP Cheney was up there. We were on the C-17 that flew in the motorcade.<br /><br />--Chris
 

vinney

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
437
Re: Air in lower unit?

I think the noise has been created by the water. I would disconnect the belt or belts. I think the problem is in the alternator. Water got in the bearings of the alternator. Or you hurt the diode pack in the alternator. I have seen one bad diode make some strange noises. I dont think its a gimbal bearing.The new style gen two drive has a seal behind the gimbal bearing. You would have had to fill the engine compartment half way up the engine. And you would have rotted the positive cable off the starter. The problem was created by the water in the engine compartment. Remove the belts and run the engine with the belts off. You can isolate the noise. thank for the reply. Vinney.
 

vinney

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
437
Re: Air in lower unit?

The bellhousing on your engine is sealed if water got in there when the hose got loose. Water gets trapped in the bellhousing and can make funny noises. If the belts dont do the trick I would loosen the cover plate on the bellhousing and see if wter comes out.If water is trapped in the bellhousing you need to have the starter rebuilt. I still think your problem was created by the water. Vinney
 

C17LoadSmasher

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Messages
152
Re: Air in lower unit?

I will see what I can do. I've to put this all on hold, the USAF is having me fly out Sat night, so I have alot of things to take care of prior to leaving. See, the reservists out in the system have decided that they want to come home for Thanksgiving (they will do the same thing for Christmas). They volunteered to go out there, and they should fulfill that obligation. If they did not want to do so, then they should never have volunteered. So, as usual, the active duty is left holding the bag. But anyways. I will go and have a look at the engine, pending time and all that jazz and see what I can find. The shop manual arrived yesterday, but too late (dark outside) to do any work on it :( I will keep you posted.
 

P.V.

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
452
Re: Air in lower unit?

I vote starter. Possibly stuck bendix, maybe just that one time (or two). With that much water in bilge, it has/had water in it. It needs inspecting as it WILL go bad on you!! And if it did run engaged, then the brushes/armature is/will be damaged!!!
 

C17LoadSmasher

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Messages
152
Re: Air in lower unit?

Well I am finally back from flying and have some time available to check things out, I will keep you all posted on what I find today.
 

C17LoadSmasher

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Messages
152
Re: Air in lower unit?

Hi all,<br /><br />I am inclined to believe it is the starter as well, however, before I undertake an endeavor to replace the starter, I want to ask for some input. Today I went and took the boat to a slip a little farther away, but one I often take the boat too. She's been sitting a while, so she craked a little slower than normal, but she did crank. After several tries, it finally caught and continued to run. The noise/vibration was still present, and I investigated while the engine was running. If I put my hand back by the starter, I felt a breeze as if there was an impeller spinning. I am not terribly familiar with starters, but I would think that if after the engine cranks and the starter has disengaged that the starter and related impeller (perhaps there to cool the starter as it cranks?) would stop spinning? This leads me to believe that it could indeed be the starter bendix as has been suggested by earlier posters. I did check to see how far the water might have gotten up, and it did not reach the top of the starter, as the positive battery cable is still intact and rust-free. It appears that perhaps some water did contact the bottom of the starter though. Any thoughts? :confused: <br /><br />Your help is most appreciated!<br /><br />--Chris
 
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