Air don't freeze... RV antifreeze DOES!

[Lou C]

I have been recycling mine for like 30 years. I don't think I'd want a flammable substance in water drains! PG antifreeze is the way to go, just use the highest concentration you can.

 

[Scott Danforth]

This thread is starting to make me look forward to the next oil thread....

Must be winter and were all bored ....

 

[Chris1956]

Gee, the kerosene only goes into the drains, when you turn off the heat and leave. Not sure how it would catch fire, in the sink trap.

 

[Bob Sander]

Gee, the kerosene only goes into the drains, when you turn off the heat and leave. Not sure how it would catch fire, in the sink trap.

Not all plumbing systems are the same. Whatever goes into my drain eventually ends up in my holding tank. I'm pretty sure if the holding tank vacuum guy knew he was pumping kerosene.... he wouldn't.

 

[dingbat]

Nothing reaffirms my commitment to outboard power like a good winterization and antifreeze thread….lol

 

[Chris1956]

Ok Bob, so 2 oz of kerosene in your holding tank is an issue. For you, use some automotive antifreeze.

 

[Lou C]

Flammable vapor is what would concern me. -200 PG antifreeze would likely cover any situation no matter where you live.

 

[H20Rat]

This thread is starting to make me look forward to the next oil thread....

Must be winter and were all bored ....

That was pretty much my exact reason for starting the thread! The boating season here in ND is really short, so had to take advantage of my chance to visit the boat in the middle of winter. Frozen RV antifreeze was a nice side bonus!

 

[Chris1956]

You do realize that sewer gas is methane? Methane is more flammable than kerosene

 

[JimS123]

You do realize that sewer gas is methane? Methane is more flammable than kerosene

I wouldn't be concerned with flammability. My issue would be sending crap down the sewer, no matter how small an amount.

 

[Lou C]

Here in Long Island we have a big issue with ground water pollution. It has been an issue for decades, because of the legacy of farming and aircraft manufacturing (Grumman Aircraft Engineering and later on, Grumman Aerospace, and Republic Aviation) that was big on Long Island from 1930-1995 or so. As a result one of the biggest underground plumes is in central Nassau County coming from the former Grumman/US Navy facility in Bethpage Long Island. It has spread to the point where it has reached the Southern State Parkway and threatens the ecology of the Great South Bay. They are finally taking the steps to clean this up which should have been started in the '70s. It has been estimated that it will take 100 years to clean it up totally. In the meanwhile water filters are a big business here! Tricholorethylene is one of the biggest offenders, it was used to clean aluminum before painting with Zinc Chromate.
Aircraft manufacturing provided thousands of good jobs and the best Navy fighters ever built (Grumman Hellcat, Bearcat, F-14 Tomcat and others) along with Republic's WW-II P-47 Thunderbolt and Republic's A-10 Warthog which still serves to this day, as well as the Lunar Module that was built in Bethpage by Grumman from 1962-1972. But when the companies got bought out, the jobs disappeared but the pollution stayed.

 

[JimS123]

Here in Long Island we have a big issue with ground water pollution. It has been an issue for decades, because of the legacy of farming and aircraft manufacturing (Grumman Aircraft Engineering and later on, Grumman Aerospace, and Republic Aviation) that was big on Long Island from 1930-1995 or so. As a result one of the biggest underground plumes is in central Nassau County coming from the former Grumman/US Navy facility in Bethpage Long Island. It has spread to the point where it has reached the Southern State Parkway and threatens the ecology of the Great South Bay. They are finally taking the steps to clean this up which should have been started in the '70s. It has been estimated that it will take 100 years to clean it up totally. In the meanwhile water filters are a big business here! Tricholorethylene is one of the biggest offenders, it was used to clean aluminum before painting with Zinc Chromate.
Aircraft manufacturing provided thousands of good jobs and the best Navy fighters ever built (Grumman Hellcat, Bearcat, F-14 Tomcat and others) along with Republic's WW-II P-47 Thunderbolt and Republic's A-10 Warthog which still serves to this day, as well as the Lunar Module that was built in Bethpage by Grumman from 1962-1972. But when the companies got bought out, the jobs disappeared but the pollution stayed.

Ever hear of the "Love Canal"?

As young marrieds we were looking to buy our first house. A friend told us about one right in the middle of that fiasco. Nobody knew at the time. I noticed a smelly fluid oozing into the sump pump, and quickly nixed that house. Turned out my friend DID buy it.

Three years later the story broke and all the properties were condemned. My friend lost his shirt.

 

[Lou C]

Yep, and not only that, Hooker Chemical had a plant in Hicksville LI right next to the Grumman plant in Bethpage and they got blamed for the first pollutants found, there was undoubtedly political pressure to not make Grumman look bad because they were a military contractor and a big employer here on Long Island. Later on (like 20 years passed) the truth came out.

 

[Bob Sander]

That was pretty much my exact reason for starting the thread! The boating season here in ND is really short, so had to take advantage of my chance to visit the boat in the middle of winter. Frozen RV antifreeze was a nice side bonus!

Yeah, I'm just North of you in Manitoba. Just got up to the cabin to check my place out too. I was going to shovel the snow off and have a peek inside, but I guess laziness got the best of me.
No antifreeze in mine anyway... just air

 

[tpenfield]

A discussion on a Mercruiser Forum has prompted me to look into what I feel is a common misunderstanding about RV/Marine Antifreeze, and relevant to this topic.

• Burst point vs freeze point
• Freeze point and expansion

Below is a link to a good reference document which explains that the published/marketed ratings are a 'pipe burst' rating, which is taken from a plumbing industry standard for AF strength.

Here is a link to the document. . . . https://newcontent.westmarine.com/content/documents/pdfs/Antifreeze_101_Revised(2).pdf

With the newer engines, many of which have plastic parts in the cooling systems, not only does the traditional pipe burst rating need to be considered, but also a rating for plastic pipes.

Here is a quote from the document. . .

" -60°F (-51°C) Marine Antifreeze will provide burst protection to -60°F (-51°C) and freeze protection within a range of +7°F to +10°F (-14°C
to -12°C). When testing with a refractometer designed for use with PG, freeze point readings on the PG scale will range from +7°F to +10°F. When
winterizing water systems with plastic pipes in regions where temperatures can fall below -10°F (-23°C), we recommend using
-100°F (-73°C) Marine Antifreeze."

So, many of the northern-most folks need to be winterizing with the -100˚F stuff.

Also a misunderstanding of the antifreeze is that when it reaches and goes below the 'freeze' point it 'supposedly' does not expand. Not true . . . and if you think about it . . . if 'no expansion' were the case, it would have an infinitely low burst rating, since expansion would be required to 'burst' a pipe (or other container).

So, if you have some plastic components in your cooling system (single point drain valves, raw water pump bodies, strainers, etc.) you probably need to be using -75˚ F or -100˚F to avoid any chance of reaching a burst point for plastics. . . . as well as draining the system.

 

[briangcc]

Over the years I've had (3) different local (within 100miles) marinas winterize my I/O's. Each one of them certified Volvo/Merc dealers/service. Each one of them use the exact same thing....Air. It simply don't freeze.

 

[Lou C]

If you can find the Sierra PG antifreeze and get a refractometer (for PG antifreeze/water mix testing) you can get better antifreeze protection for less than the cost of -100 PG. I have been using this for a few years now.....

 

[shrew]

There are two kinds of Marine/RV antifreeze and both are pink. Look closely at the price and the contents. The big box stores often sell both.

PRIME GUARD128 fl. oz. Ethyl Alcohol -50°F RV Antifreeze:
--> $2.98/gal.

PRIME GUARD128 fl. oz. PG Formula and Glycerin Free -50°F RV Antifreeze
--> $4.98/gal.

There is a difference. The pure propylene glycol is better. Pure propylene glycol should not expand that much. As long as your system is open, any minute expansion will take the path of least resistance. It's easier to work it's way up the pipe than it is to blow the pipe out.

As for the "air is free and doesn't freeze", this is very true. The issue is whether you can actually remove all the water and it's not collecting in a low point in the system.

Finally, there is a huge difference between propylene glycol (Marine/RV AF) and ethylene glycol (auto-motive AF). Propylene Glycol is non-toxic. There is no way to winterize any system on a boat with dumping large quantities onto ground, into the gutter systems, and into the water. This is just plain irresponsible. ethylene glycol is not acceptable as a winterizer anywhere.

Search Results for propylene glycol at The Home Depot

Search Results for propylene glycol at The Home Depot

www.homedepot.com

 

[JimS123]

There are two kinds of Marine/RV antifreeze and both are pink. Look closely at the price and the contents. The big box stores often sell both.

PRIME GUARD128 fl. oz. Ethyl Alcohol -50°F RV Antifreeze:
--> $2.98/gal.

PRIME GUARD128 fl. oz. PG Formula and Glycerin Free -50°F RV Antifreeze
--> $4.98/gal.

There is a difference. The pure propylene glycol is better. Pure propylene glycol should not expand that much. As long as your system is open, any minute expansion will take the path of least resistance. It's easier to work it's way up the pipe than it is to blow the pipe out.

As for the "air is free and doesn't freeze", this is very true. The issue is whether you can actually remove all the water and it's not collecting in a low point in the system.

Finally, there is a huge difference between propylene glycol (Marine/RV AF) and ethylene glycol (auto-motive AF). Propylene Glycol is non-toxic. There is no way to winterize any system on a boat with dumping large quantities onto ground, into the gutter systems, and into the water. This is just plain irresponsible. ethylene glycol is not acceptable as a winterizer anywhere.

Search Results for propylene glycol at The Home Depot

Search Results for propylene glycol at The Home Depot

www.homedepot.com

That's the real answer....

 

[KJM]

Ever hear of the "Love Canal"?

As young marrieds we were looking to buy our first house. A friend told us about one right in the middle of that fiasco. Nobody knew at the time. I noticed a smelly fluid oozing into the sump pump, and quickly nixed that house. Turned out my friend DID buy it.

Three years later the story broke and all the properties were condemned. My friend lost his shirt.

Yeah, I heard of that place. Man you were lucky!