aint this a kicker

SS MAYFLOAT

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Re: aint this a kicker

Sad situation there Rodbolt. Truthfully I think with them having such a demand on gas and steel makes me think they have something else going on besides private industry. I think they are building stuff to be kept quiet until they use it on another country. Just my opinion.
 

rodbolt

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Re: aint this a kicker

rumour has it that brunswick is planning 2 china facilities. I cant help but wonder what a 30 million dollar facility in a place like arknsaw or Oklahoma or about any place in the US would have boosted our economy. its all about the beans baby the CEO's make so much money they really dont care about the average american worker. all it has to do is make a profit.<br /> kinda like bubba W and his new CAFTA plan. works well with slick willie's NAFTA plan.<br /> but I guess if you have saud oil money and a 1/4 mill a year taxpayer salary CAFTA and NAFTA look good :) :)
 

SS MAYFLOAT

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Re: aint this a kicker

rodbolt, awhile back there was a post about where all the good sevrice people went. Then in that article that you posted reference to, that the company had problems getting help.<br /><br />This is my thoughts where good employees are. They are at home and can't get a job because of drug tests. A person that enjoys his free time is going to work at a place that allows him to do what he wants in his free time. I know this sounds bad, but I think it has alot to do with our work force wanting to spend their free time as they wish.<br /><br />I do agree that too many stockholders and CEO's are to money hungry. It is the blood and sweat of the labor that makes the product. Don't pay the workers and treat them well, their company won't be worth squat in the long run. Easy way out is to move it to another country to be more profitable without regards to their own American work force.<br /><br />It is a crying shame what is going on...plain and simple... :(
 

12Footer

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Re: aint this a kicker

What SS Mayfloat said.<br />(IMHO)
 

JRJ

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Re: aint this a kicker

SS Mayfloat quote<br />"This is my thoughts where good employees are. They are at home and can't get a job because of drug tests." <br /><br />Really? I never missed an employee that failed a drug test. We were better of without them.
 

kenimpzoom

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Re: aint this a kicker

It all goes back to this.<br /><br />"Our strategy is to get the smaller engines into the best economic position we can," Mackey said. "North America is difficult when you consider the cost of labor, health care and other things here."<br /><br />American workers are too expensive.<br /><br />Are you willing to pay an additional 1000 bucks for your made in USA boat motor?<br /><br />Ken
 

Tinkerer

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Re: aint this a kicker

Originally posted by KenImpZoom:<br /> <br />Are you willing to pay an additional 1000 bucks for your made in USA boat motor?<br /><br />Ken
Are you happier paying less so that the CEO and senior managment and stockholders of the company can get ridiculous salaries and bonuses and stock options and rising stock prices just for exporting your mates' jobs? And for diminishing your own country's manufacturing capacity and the distribution of wealth within it?<br /><br />How come politicians' and CEOs' and senior managements' jobs all have to stay onshore while they're busily pushing everyone else's overseas? Surely there are grasping idiots overseas who'd screw American workers for a fraction of the money onshore CEO's etc get?<br /><br />Guess who gets the benefits in China? It ain't the workers in the workers' communist paradise.<br /><br />I'd happily pay more if I knew I was keeping other Australians (substitute Americans if I was you up the top of the planet) in work. But it's not an issue as we don't get the chance to decide any more than you do.
 

12Footer

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Re: aint this a kicker

Originally posted by JRJ:<br /> SS Mayfloat quote<br />"This is my thoughts where good employees are. They are at home and can't get a job because of drug tests." <br /><br />Really? I never missed an employee that failed a drug test. We were better of without them.
I won't speak for SS, but I believe this is exactly what he meant too. The fact that cheap, reliable labor effects the price and quality of the end-product, is readily viewable in the history of America's auto industries' rise and fall.<br />As a nation, in general anyhow, we have priced ourselves out of the labor market, both in word and deed.<br />And now, we see the results yet again in another factory, while some choose to blame the factory's management for wanting the factory to survive.<br />It allways goes this way , every time one moves to foriegn shores for the purposes of self-preservation.<br />It's a hard problem to solve if those effected cannot even agree on the culprits of this overall decline.
 

kenimpzoom

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Re: aint this a kicker

If it the loss of jobs was so bad, why isnt the unemployment increasing?<br /><br />A news program showed the effect of plant closings in one small town. They showed all the negative things, then at the very end it showed that many of the workers found jobs that were better than the plant job.<br /><br />Ken
 

SS MAYFLOAT

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Re: aint this a kicker

Ken, the reports of unemployment are gathered from those on unemployement. After their unemployment runs out, they no longer are counted. However it seems the homeless numbers keep on rising, but the unemployment doesn't.<br /><br />I'm curious about this drug screening thing. Do Amrican companys do it outside of the country? If they don't then it is proof it is done soley for the benefit of having lower workers comp premiums. Pot is legal in some of these countries. Just wondering how our big companys handle the situation there.<br /><br />Just wondering also what kind of wages does a typical plant worker make when it is an employee owened company?
 

gonfishn

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Re: aint this a kicker

Somethings wrong when raw materials can be shipped overseas,manufactured,shipped back and still be less than what the American worker can make it for..<br /><br />Thanks to our Goverment China now has entered the Textile Industry..They say within five years that alot of plants here will go under..<br /><br />Fifty cents an hour is alot of money in some parts of the world..Imo our Gov. Should put a high tax on those who move to other countrys.<br /><br />Our banks are even doing it..Huntington Bank for instance..If you need help you call a tool free number..An American won't answer but but someone in India will.. Half the time you can't understand their broken English and end up calling your local bank in the morning to get the straight scoop.<br /><br />If ya ask me I say the Good ole USA is going to H### in a handbag if they don't get it right soon..<br /><br />Don't matter which side of the fence you are on...No one is getting the job done when it comes to takn care of our own first..
 

tomatolord

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Re: aint this a kicker

NOPE - free trade will be the savior of our country...not the death knell...<br /><br />Look at countries that bar free trade - Germany is a great example 12-14% unemployment and it is going up AND that does not include the former east germany numbers where the rate is closer to 20%.<br /><br />Times change <br /><br />The textile companies were artifically held up by price controls on imports - those price controls lasted for 10 years - thanks to congress - when they were not renewed the textile companies all took a bullet to the head in a year instead of over 10 years. <br /><br />Cheaper products give ME more money to do things with<br /><br />Lower costs for a mfg means they can and do invest in other areas<br /><br />The movement to a cheap work force has and will continue <br /><br />Textiles used to be a northern thing, then they moved south because of CHEAP LABOR, then they moved to mexico, now they are moving to china.<br /><br />yes I would rather pay 300$ for a small engine instead of 1000$ and so would 80% of americans
 

ob

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Re: aint this a kicker

Cheap overseas labor is little more than taking slavery out of the public view.What I'm wondering is where all of the big savings promised is ,in the wake of Nafta.I'm refering to items other than Chinese handcuffs and pinatas.
 

Andrew Leigh

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Re: aint this a kicker

Hi<br /><br />Sophisticated communication methods have allowed the pace and style of business to increase dramatically. This has effectively made the world a "smaller place" allowing others access to markets previously denied to them.<br /><br />Emerging economies are prepared to pay the price for growth and with their unemployment levels people will work for little cash reward. In one asian country there is the "hot bed" principle where one employee leaves for his shift the returning one will take over his bed in the sleeping quarters. This they do for the week getting Sundays off. It's about supply and demand. With very low unemployment wages will be high, with high unemployment wages are low. Supply and demand.<br /><br />I agree with Tomatolord. I don't want to pay over the odds for any product. Although I would prefer to pay for locally manufactured goods.<br /><br />This topic has surfaced in various guises and effectively is about the challenges facing employees in the "new world order". This my friends is not a plight only Americans find themselves in, indeed it it true for many "healthy" economies. If these "healthy" economies were to pull back all the goods made in the poorer country's, make them local and demand a price commensurate with local labour rates, inflation would skyrocket. As many other posters have pointed out, look at how many things we own and buy do not originate from the country in which we reside.<br /><br />From my perspective and in my business I suffer the same problems, which I might add I loose plenty of sleep over. I am having to layoff employees due to being unable to compete with imported goods :( :mad: . By the way this included not replacing two highly paid board members.<br /><br />My business is simply unable to secure the volume and prices previously enjoyed. We need to get smarter, work harder, find better methods reduce profit margins where they have become indefendable, and some are.<br /><br />Can't talk for U.S. but here my employees see their "sick leave" as part of their "annual" vacation allotment and will take it steadily through the year. Theft is rife and personal and company belongings need to be secured. Losses in productivity are enormous. When I recently took over the business I decided to pay a visit to the night shift, bearing in mind this factory is a continuous process and requires a few operators for many machines. All but one I found asleep in the tearoom with the one having turned off all the other machines bar the two he was running. Just before shift change they start up the machines incurring excessive start up scrap. We were experiencing 20% scrap levels at the time ......... little wonder :mad: . Since they have stopped sleeping scrap is dowm to 6%. While this was happening some Chinese were working their asse$ off looking for my business which they are starting to get. Still while this is all happening my labour are asking for more benefits, wage increases and fewer working hours :confused: . I don't believe that my experience is unique, it happens all over the world.<br /><br />To claim it is totally the fault of money greedy executives would be unfair. That job is not easy, for those of you who have done it will attest to. It is about making a fair return for the effort, paying market related wages and employing people. I am not aware of one senior manager that I have spoken to in years that does not believe in people as the most valuable asset of the business. Life is about balance, it is the CEO's job to try keep that balance in the business realm. When China beats the cr@p out of the CEO's business by buying market share to the point where his business is no longer viable, he is the one who gets blamed.<br /><br />I have a joke in our business and that is not to be in any passage, stairwell or car park at closing time. You could get killed in an early stampede. Strange how that is not true for employees trying to get to work.<br /><br />Let's not get thing out of perspective, many things impact on companies of which we are unaware.<br /><br />I for one an not embarrased by the wage I earn vs. my employees. Whilst I work to 21:00 most nights for no pay they get time and a half. I start at the same time 07:30. Whilst I work weekends for no pay they got time and a half and then double time. When i get into the car park in the mornings, not many cars are to be found, when I leave even fewer. Have cancelled my fair share of weekend fishing trips and the like, can't rememeber when last one of my employees has done so for a deadline.<br /><br />Cheers<br />Andrew
 

BoatBuoy

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Re: aint this a kicker

I remember listening to a visionary motivational speaker some 20-25 years ago. His observation was that this country was 80% manufacturing, 20% service oriented country. He, and other forward-thinkers predicted that in the early 21st century that would reverse - 20% manufacturing, 80% service oriented. It turns out, they were close. Strong (high) oil prices are playing a major roll in the US trade deficit, which was at an all time high of $617.7 billion dollars last year.<br /><br />NAFTA is but a small piece of this global puzzle. BTW, NAFTA was NOT slick-willy's. It began long before he took office. Over the objections of the Demos, he did pursue it. On Dec. 17, 1992, President Bush, Mexican President Salinas, and Canadian Prime Minister Mulroney signed the NAFTA agreement. It was signed into law by President Clinton on December 8, 1993, and took effect on January 1, 1994.
 

pjc

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Re: aint this a kicker

China intentionally keeps its currency undervalued as compared to Euro and US dollar.......<br /><br />To many blame US labor costs for outsourcing. Look to US litigation, regulation, and tax codes for real expense to US domestic manufacturing business.<br />JMO
 

kenimpzoom

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Re: aint this a kicker

PJC is right, salaries are a small part of the reason for jobs going overseas.<br /><br />Lawsuits, over regulations, and too many restrictions make other coutires look much better.<br /><br />Unemployment can be measured by the health of the economy. Our economy is still doing good, therefore, unemployment is low.<br /><br />Ken
 

pjc

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Re: aint this a kicker

thank you Andrew Leigh for an excellent post..to quote your post.."When I recently took over the business I decided to pay a visit to the night shift"....this is somthing that strikes me as very important, not primarily to "discover" employee abuse, but to display management involvement and team building within the work force. Great tool!!!.<br /><br />And another quote..."I have a joke in our business and that is not to be in any passage, stairwell or car park at closing time. You could get killed in an early stampede. Strange how that is not true for employees trying to get to work."....<br /><br />Why are employees given to be more motivated to leave than arrive to your business? I do believe that the soft skills that HR folks, and managers are trained in have the intention of creating behavior in employees to desire being on the job, and contributing to a companies success.
 

JRJ

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Re: aint this a kicker

We aren't the only ones with jobs going over-seas. I just looked at the Suzuki oil filter I bought for my made in Japan Johnson motor. The filter was made in Austria :confused: At least the 5 qts. of oil I put in it said Made in the USA :cool:
 
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