Age old outdrive question

[scarinu10]

Well, hi, I'm new here and I just bought a boat.
ive been a mechanic for quite awhile.
But I'm new to boats.. I'm struggling to identify my upper and lower. I have a 1982 celebrity 180br with a mercruiser 470 sterndrive. Went to replace the carburetor today and notice pooling of gear lube in the bilge . Took the out drive off and looked up the serial number. Serial number on transom olate seems to belong to pre alpha, however pics and description of pre alpha doesn't match what I actually have. Also feel like my lower is pre alpha based on shape but it doesn't have the preload pin on the top of the shaft. So I was wondering if y'all.could help. I've attached pics of my boat, and then the drive with the areas of interest in all of the identification guides. S/n says 6035170

 

[QBhoy]

Alpha one gen 2 by the looks of it although it would be confirmed if there was a picture showing where the trim rams attach. An early one if it is. Likely early 90’s
One thing is certain though. If that boat is a 1982...that upper half of the outdrive certainly isn’t as early as that. I’m certain of that.

 

[scarinu10]

Alpha one gen 2 by the looks of it although it would be confirmed if there was a picture showing where the trim rams attach. An early one if it is. Likely early 90’s
One thing is certain though. If that boat is a 1982...that upper half of the outdrive certainly isn’t as early as that. I’m certain of that.

Thanks for the info. It's definitely not gen two. The trim Rams mount at the very end of the drive. Also I have the nuts/studs style mounting. I'm thinking alpha 1 gen 1?

 

[QBhoy]

Thanks for the info. It's definitely not gen two. The trim Rams mount at the very end of the drive. Also I have the nuts/studs style mounting. I'm thinking alpha 1 gen 1?

Ok then that’s a sure sign it’s a late alpha gen 1. I’m still unsure about the lower unit though. Could be gen 1 or pre alpha. Someone will know better than I. But the top half certainly looks alpha.

 

[scarinu10]

Ok then that’s a sure sign it’s a late alpha gen 1. I’m still unsure about the lower unit though. Could be gen 1 or pre alpha. Someone will know better than I. But the top half certainly looks alpha.

My thought is if the lower unit is pre alpha , the shaft has been changed at minimum. The shaft in the pre alphas have a preload pin.

Anyone able to chime in on the lower ?

Thanks qbhoy!
​​​

 

[achris]

Ok. You've right, not a Gen 2. That's completely confirmed.

The upper is an R, MR or Alpha One. They are all basically the same, just need the serial number to confirm which. The wide plate at the bottom would suggest MR/Alpha One.

The serial number from the transom assembly is MC-1 (no such animal as 'pre-Alpha')... Is the bell housing more rounded?

Gear housing (drive lower half). Now, that one is a bit confusing. It looks like an MC-1 or R, but as there is no pre-load pin that would suggest MR/Alpha One. You'd need to lift the water pump base and look at the drive shaft bearing. I have read where people have removed the preload pin thinking that's the right thing to do to put it under an R/MR/Alpha One upper. But that's very VERY wrong... The preload pin is there for the lower housing bearing set up on the drive shaft, and has nothing to do with the upper housing. Another way to tell is to look for the lower drive shaft lateral movement. Grab the shaft and move it sideways. If you can move it, then lift the shaft and see if that movement is gone. If that's the case, it's an MR/Alpha One. On the other hand, if lifting the shaft allows the shaft to move more, then it's an MC1 or R...

Given the Upper is an MR/Alpha One, and the serial number of the transom assembly is an MC1, it looks like the drive has been replaced at some point.

Chris........

 

[scarinu10]

Ok. You've right, not a Gen 2. That's completely confirmed.

The upper is an R, MR or Alpha One. They are all basically the same, just need the serial number to confirm which. The wide plate at the bottom would suggest MR/Alpha One.

The serial number from the transom assembly is MC-1 (no such animal as 'pre-Alpha')... Is the bell housing more rounded?

Gear housing (drive lower half). Now, that one is a bit confusing. It looks like an MC-1 or R, but as there is no pre-load pin that would suggest MR/Alpha One. You'd need to lift the water pump base and look at the drive shaft bearing. I have read where people have removed the preload pin thinking that's the right thing to do to put it under an R/MR/Alpha One upper. But that's very VERY wrong... The preload pin is there for the lower housing bearing set up on the drive shaft, and has nothing to do with the upper housing. Another way to tell is to look for the lower drive shaft lateral movement. Grab the shaft and move it sideways. If you can move it, then lift the shaft and see if that movement is gone. If that's the case, it's an MR/Alpha One. On the other hand, if lifting the shaft allows the shaft to move more, then it's an MC1 or R...

Given the Upper is an MR/Alpha One, and the serial number of the transom assembly is and MC1, it looks like the drive has been replaced at some point.

Chris........

Chris,
where is the serial number on the upper ? Is it behind the sticker ? What am I looking for when I look at the drive shaft bearing ?

Thanks for the knowledge. Just trying to locate proper gasket kits/pumps and such.

 

[achris]

Serial number location. http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...rn-drive-and-engine-serial-numbers#post645586

Once you have the water pump base off, look down the hole. If you see just the top of a tapered roller bearing, it's MC1 or R. If you see a locking collar (above the bearing) with 4 tabs facing in, then it's an MR or Alpha One... (MR and Alpha One are the same in all but name)..

Chris.......

Locking collar...

 

[scarinu10]

Serial number location. http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...rn-drive-and-engine-serial-numbers#post645586

Once you have the water pump base off, look down the hole. If you see just the top of a tapered roller bearing, it's MC1 or R. If you see a locking collar (above the bearing) with 4 tabs facing in, then it's an MR or Alpha One... (MR and Alpha One are the same in all but name)..

Chris.......

Locking collar...

Ok,. Got the serial number this morning.
​​​​​​Also removed water pump base and I believe this is the top of a roller bearing ?

 

[Scott06]

Becareful with that whaletail on the drive. I had one on my old boats alpha gen 1 - it broke the cavitation plate where the bolts holes go in it.

 

[muc]

Your engine is a 1981 485 TP WO
The drive serial number is a 1987 Alpha one 1.84:1 upper
The lower looks like it might be an SEI
Can't tell from the picture, maybe clean that out some and reshoot the pic?
About 6-8" behind the drive shaft there should be some casting numbers, those might tell what it is.

 

[achris]

Ok,. Got the serial number this morning.
​​​​​​Also removed water pump base and I believe this is the top of a roller bearing ?

I think that's the bottom part of the water pump base, broken off. I think you'll find that there is still a piece of plastic in there.
You need to dig that out.

Chris.....

 

[muc]

I think that's the bottom part of the water pump base, broken off. I think you'll find that there is still a piece of plastic in there.
You need to dig that out.

Chris.....

X2

Good eyes Chris. I missed that.

 

[scarinu10]

Your engine is a 1981 485 TP WO
The drive serial number is a 1987 Alpha one 1.84:1 upper
The lower looks like it might be an SEI
Can't tell from the picture, maybe clean that out some and reshoot the pic?
About 6-8" behind the drive shaft there should be some casting numbers, those might tell what it is.

Ok... Engine, i'm assuming you're referring to the combustion engine inside the boat correct ?
If you are, I'm curious how you gathered that from what I've posted.

Drive is what i've been referring to as the "upper" right?
and the lower unit is... well, the lower unit.

I'm working on getting some identifying pictures sent my way from my father in laws house.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to find a gasket/oring/waterpump kit for the lower and the upper.

Sounds like the upper should be easy, 1987 Alpha one....
As for the lower, is there any way to find a kit without a casting number, I know the answer is probably no, and I know better than that, but thought I would try to kick the tires on it while waiting on any other identifying images.

I figure since I'm now settled in here, I'd explain the reason I'm shoulder deep in tearing the outdrive down is because I found about a quart of gear lube in my bilge. Just trying to get this thing refreshed, get the leak to stop, and get out on the water.

Thanks again you guys for your help!

 

[Bondo]

As for the lower, is there any way to find a kit without a casting number,

Ayuh,..... This one should cover it,.....

 

[achris]

...As for the lower, is there any way to find a kit without a casting number, ...

Did you pull dig out the rest of the water pump base from the gear housing? Once you do that, you'll know which unit you have..

Here's how we refer to things.

Chris......

 

[muc]

Ok... Engine, i'm assuming you're referring to the combustion engine inside the boat correct ?
If you are, I'm curious how you gathered that from what I've posted.

Drive is what i've been referring to as the "upper" right?
and the lower unit is... well, the lower unit.

I'm working on getting some identifying pictures sent my way from my father in laws house.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to find a gasket/oring/waterpump kit for the lower and the upper.

Sounds like the upper should be easy, 1987 Alpha one....
As for the lower, is there any way to find a kit without a casting number, I know the answer is probably no, and I know better than that, but thought I would try to kick the tires on it while waiting on any other identifying images.

I figure since I'm now settled in here, I'd explain the reason I'm shoulder deep in tearing the outdrive down is because I found about a quart of gear lube in my bilge. Just trying to get this thing refreshed, get the leak to stop, and get out on the water.

Thanks again you guys for your help!

The 6035170 serial number is listed in the MerCruiser data base as belonging to a 1981 485. I wanted you to be aware that you don't have an 1982 470 because it can sometimes make a difference. This is why it's sometimes cost effective to get your parts thru a MerCruiser dealer. They are the only ones that have access to this info.

The 0B875249 is the serial number to a Alpha one 1.84:1 drive shaft housing. Gear housings don't have serial numbers and are pretty interchangeable. So we don't know what you have.

Is it possible someone spilled a qt of gear lube in the bilge? The reason I ask is because back in the days your boat was built. There was no way for gear lube to get to the bilge (no gear lube bottle in engine compartment) so to get one qt in there it would have to come in thru the u joint bellows. And that's a lot!

The picture of the boat looks nice. But have you checked the floor, transom and stringers for rot? This wasn't a engine that was known for lasting a long time and is hard to replace with a modern engine. Please check closely for rot. If the floor is the least bit "springy" the problem is way worse then you think. It all depends on how the boat was stored, it may have many more years left in it. Or it maybe a money pit that you will be thousands of $$$$$ ahead by running away right now.

 

[scarinu10]

The 6035170 serial number is listed in the MerCruiser data base as belonging to a 1981 485. I wanted you to be aware that you don't have an 1982 470 because it can sometimes make a difference. This is why it's sometimes cost effective to get your parts thru a MerCruiser dealer. They are the only ones that have access to this info.

The 0B875249 is the serial number to a Alpha one 1.84:1 drive shaft housing. Gear housings don't have serial numbers and are pretty interchangeable. So we don't know what you have.

Is it possible someone spilled a qt of gear lube in the bilge? The reason I ask is because back in the days your boat was built. There was no way for gear lube to get to the bilge (no gear lube bottle in engine compartment) so to get one qt in there it would have to come in thru the u joint bellows. And that's a lot!

The picture of the boat looks nice. But have you checked the floor, transom and stringers for rot? This wasn't a engine that was known for lasting a long time and is hard to replace with a modern engine. Please check closely for rot. If the floor is the least bit "springy" the problem is way worse then you think. It all depends on how the boat was stored, it may have many more years left in it. Or it maybe a money pit that you will be thousands of $$$$$ ahead by running away right now.

Weird, is it possible the valve covers are interchangeable? Mine 100% says 470 on it.

No, nobody spilled a quart in the bilge. I had been in there off and on all week. It did come in through the u-joint bellows, we figured that out when we took the drive off. I'm in the process of buying a rebuild kit, going to my local Mercury dealer later today.

Boat is pretty nice. The floor has one spot in it that is concerning that I didn't catch before purchasing. It's up by the windshield just before crossing over onto the bow. Pretty nervous about what that will look like when all is said and done.

Plan on keeping you all updated! We will be doing most repair work ourselves. However, if we pull up carpet and see things are just really bad, gonna turn and run.

 

[scarinu10]

Did you pull dig out the rest of the water pump base from the gear housing? Once you do that, you'll know which unit you have..

Here's how we refer to things.

Chris......

Haven't made it back down there to accomplish it yet. It's at my in-laws currently. After i get off of work in a couple of hours, i'm going to bed, then heading down.

Also hitting my mercury dealer to buy the rebuild kits for the drive.

 

[achris]

Weird, is it possible the valve covers are interchangeable? Mine 100% says 470 on it.

That '470' is just a sticker, and yes the valve covers for the 470 and the 485 are completely interchangeable, it's the same cover.

No, nobody spilled a quart in the bilge. I had been in there off and on all week. It did come in through the u-joint bellows, we figured that out when we took the drive off. I'm in the process of buying a rebuild kit, going to my local Mercury dealer later today.

If it's dumped that much oil out through the bellows and into the bilge, then it's either popped the front seal, or the surface on the yoke is so bad it's completely eaten the seal. Get ready for either a speedie-sleeve, or a new yoke.

Boat is pretty nice. The floor has one spot in it that is concerning that I didn't catch before purchasing. It's up by the windshield just before crossing over onto the bow. Pretty nervous about what that will look like when all is said and done.

Plan on keeping you all updated! We will be doing most repair work ourselves. However, if we pull up carpet and see things are just really bad, gonna turn and run.