Advice needed - water in lower unit

[jasoutside]

1984 Evinrude V4 90

So a couple weeks back ran the engine some, changed out the LU gear oil. Water in the oil, shoot. So, pulled the boat over to the local "certified" Evinrude Marine Tech. I wanted to try the job myself but decided that I really ought to work on other stuff instead. I hate to cough up the dough but either way the job needed to be done. Me and my steep learning curve or the pros who can do this job with one had while the other is holding a cheese sammich. Bite the bullet, go with the pros.

They said they'd check it out to see what's going on.

Few days lator, call, jobs done.

I get there and he says "We replaced all the seals, engine runs great."

Me, "So where was it leaking from actually?"

Tech, "We weren't able to determine the exact location."

Me, "So, you just replaced all the seals? All right, I guess it's good they are all done now anyway (at a very healthy cost). Piece of mind I suppose."

Pay the fat bill, hook up the boat, haul away.

I just ran the boat this afternoon, the engine was tops, ran awesome, had an excellent first run of the year!

Pull in the driveway and start unhooking the rig. I notice the drain plug, leaking a little oil there. Take a closer look, hmmmm, that looks a little light colored and I sure don't think I should be seeing oil there (especially after a full seal job).

Let's just pop that off...

Maybe they were using a new extra special synthetic gear lube? With milk flavoring?

I am a little perplexed that they wouldn't/couldn't pinpoint the leak at the outset and go from there.

I am a little confused why I didn't hear the words "vacuum/pressure test" at any point. I totally forgot to ask while I was there, the big bill kinda threw me off my game a little.

So when I call them tomorrow:

Am I asking for a refund and never going back there?

Am I hauling the boat back for them to do the job again (and what "extra" work/charges might they be hitting me with)?

Is brand spanking new gear lube supposed to look like that after running 20 minutes and I'm an idiot?


Big thanks in advance for your help and advice guys.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

What's written on your invoice? Any details about what was specifically done, or what the tech doing the work might have written on it as he diagnosed the problem.....

Bummer....

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

Contact shop, ask when to bring it in...
Bring receipt, see what they say...
A solid reputable shop will re-do the entire job for free, asap...
If accepted for repair, remind them that you want to know the outcome of the pressure/vacuum test and want a written guarantee...
Anything less, call PMC...prepare the boycott...call the BBB...take out a public service message on TV reprimanding the shop...call the local radio station...contact the local print media...contact your church group...tell all your friends, family and acquaintances...
Oh yeah and demand every penny of the repair dollars paid, back!
That would be my approach...

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

Usually, a reputable shop will drain the lower, then perform two tests: a vacuum test (water can't get in) and a pressure test (oil can't leak out.) That verifies the leak and hopefully it's not just the washers on the vent and drain screws. It's easy to observe the leak by seeing the original contamined oil, so maybe they opted not to perform the standard test. Since you just had it repaired by them, looks like you are due for a trip back and some free rework. Hopefully, you were charged for a factory gearcase seal kit, part number 5006373.

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

Bummer....

They either didn't change the seals or goofed when they did. Either way, the job you paid for should do the trick and so they need to do it again. Just make sure you didn't have a loose plug screw before you light them up... especially since you saw some leakage at the screw.

Hoping for the best and tell them your lawyer is on standby

 

[classiccat]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

bad sign right off the bat when you can see fluid leaking out of the drain plug...the most simple component to seal.

I'd pop-off the prop, check out the threads in the bearing carrier to see if they've recently been used to pull it..and does the prop-shaft seal look new or is it caked with old, black grease.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

What's written on your invoice? Any details about what was specifically done, or what the tech doing the work might have written on it as he diagnosed the problem.....

Bummer....

Just all the necessary seals and o rings, listed out individually, plus labor charge.

A solid reputable shop will re-do the entire job for free, asap...

Yah, that's my expectation. I'm trying to figure if they are going to try and say it's some other issue. But, this seems pretty cut and dry, seals keep the water out, shouldn't be anything else eh?? Can't be anything else.

Usually, a reputable shop will drain the lower, then perform two tests: a vacuum test (water can't get in) and a pressure test (oil can't leak out.) That verifies the leak and hopefully it's not just the washers on the vent and drain screws.

That's what I was fully expecting. A phone call stating they did the pressure/vacuum test, found the leak, will replace that seal.

I'm not opposed to re sealing the whole thing so long as they are in there. But, I now can't help but wonder if it may have been a simple drain/fill cap the whole shebang could have been avoided.

They either didn't change the seals or goofed when they did.

Yah, I was thinking the same. They musta missed something, they gave me back all the old gaskets in a ziplock.

bad sign right off the bat when you can see fluid leaking out of the drain plug...the most simple component to seal.

Hopefully, bad plug, they give me a new one, on my way, let's hope for that eh!

 

[dozerII]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

That sucks Jason, if you need the Starmada lined up with pitch forks and torches just let us know.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

That sucks Jason, if you need the Starmada lined up with pitch forks and torches just let us know.

I'm sure they will make it right. I suppose I just would have thought they would have pressure/vacuum tested after the job. They certainly would have found the leak at that point avoiding the whole haul back and redo deal ya know.

Ah well, we'll put in a phone call here in a little bit.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

Consider the ONE thing that allowed water in the lower unit. OIL dripping from the drain plug. It was either left loose or the gasket was not replaced or even installed. That alone is worth raising your voice over. In fact that may have been the reason you had water intrusion in the first place. Those washers need to be replaced when lube is changed. That said, if they reseal the plug, they should have the moxy to pressure/vacuum test before returning the rig to you. If that was not the issue then they get to do the job over again or refund your money. A full lower unit reseal job will prevent water intrusion provided the drive shaft and prop shaft seal areas are not grooved preventing the seal from sealing.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

Yah silvertip, the drain plug is new and it was tight (though oil still dripping??). The vent plug wasn't replaced, but tight. At minimum the gasket should have been replaced. It wasn't.

they should have the moxy to pressure/vacuum test before returning the rig to you.

Yah, if they didn't initially test I really wish they would have onece the job was done. I'm certainly not an Evinrude Tech but that seems like good practice there.

Anyhow, called em, they said bring it in.

 

[Triton II]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

Good luck with it Jas, it doesn't take much water to make the gear lube look like caramel milk. I had the same issue a few years back on a Yam F60 and it was the level plug gasket... 20 cents worth! Cheers,

TII

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

So, just curious... Has this been diagnosed/resolved?

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

Dropped it off yesterday afternoon, he said "We'll get er figured out."

Ok, hope so.

I'm sure they will. Though, I have reservations about any "extra issues" (repair bills) that may pop up.

 

[jvanhees]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

Hope you get that worked out, seems like a real nice motor!

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

Yah, she ran awesome the other day, very happy with her! (well, water leakage part aside)

Hey, yur location, with I was there with ya!:thumb:

 

[InMotion]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

Yah, she ran awesome the other day, very happy with her! (well, water leakage part aside)

Hey, yur location, with I was there with ya!:thumb:

Hey Man!! Had the exact same issue with my 90 Johnson.... turned out to simply be the seal on the lower drain bolt. Replaced it. Ran all summer. No issues at all.

Hopefully for you that's all it is.

J.

 

[jvanhees]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

Yah, she ran awesome the other day, very happy with her! (well, water leakage part aside)

Hey, yur location, with I was there with ya!:thumb:

Get that rude and Ill cya tomorrow!

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

OK, just got the call, they said it's ready to be picked up.

He says that it was an "O Ring on the drive shaft under the water pump." He says it's "one that almost never leaks".

(OK, so be it, but I thought we did a full reseal.)

My expectation is that I shouldn't need to pay for this additional service, extra O Ring nor the additional gear oil needed to fill the LU again as this was missed with the original service.

Am I out of line? Am I expecting too much? Am I being unreasonable?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Advice needed - water in lower unit

Not unreasonable

Unless they want to pay you for time & gas to make 2 round trips back to the shop, perhaps loss of use of the SN while back at their shop, etc etc etc

To keep a customer, make them a good/loyal customer, and possibly get good word of mouth (instead of bad) I'd not charge 1 of my customers for anything related to the re-work.... (as a products & services provider, mistakes happen occasionally. I do everything in my power to prevent it, but when it happens, I quickly do everything I can to complete the re-work as soon as possible & w/ as little frustration/inconvenience to the customer as possible)

Then heartily thank them for getting the opportunity to make it right and their patience while we do the re-work. Plus apologize greatly for their additional time & inconvenience.

EDIT: Pressure test?