adding trim tabs

[wraenking]

Re: adding trim tabs

red x for me. i tried using properties and copying the link, but i couldnt get to it

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: adding trim tabs

nautiJohn <br /> <br />As for misinformed, sorry, I should have said I had them on a past boat to ease your mind and they were not all that bad (18’ Larson, mercruiser with trim). So there. Tried them on my new “old” boat (72 19’ John Allmand/Super Nova, Volvo with no trim) and didn't like them at all. Tried the Bennetts and it was like having a new boat. Just my experience. For the money they are great but most serious boaters buy the best they can the first time. I hate spending money just to upgrade something I already bought once but that's just me.<br /> As for the speed comment, I know how to control my boat. It maneuvers like a jet ski and faster then... well.... some. The day I was talking about was abnormal to say the least. I only went as fast as I did just to keep the bow into the wind and not get pounded to death.<br /> Oh, My tabs are installed correctly (retract up to 1”) and I do not have trim on my out drive. Like your tabs you have to get out of the boat to adjust. Bet you wouldn't have done that in the weather I was in.

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: adding trim tabs

f_inscreenname;<br /><br />I am sorry that you were unhappy with the performance of the Smart Tabs on your last New / old boat. It sounds as though either the lift pressure was not adjusted corectly ( too much lift) or the actuators were to stong for the boat. We exchange the actuators, at no charge, if the adjustment does not correct the excessive lift when on plane. <br /><br />It is unfortunate that we did not talk when you were not getting the results you expected. Thanks for the post and if we can ever be of assitance don't hesitate to contact us.

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: adding trim tabs

wraenking ;<br /><br />Send me your e-mail at John@Nauticusinc.com and I will try to send the pitures.<br /><br />John

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: adding trim tabs

Thanks for your comments John. I didn't have what I thought was a legitimate problem. I got my moneys worth out of them on my old boat . When redoing my new/old boat (with what was left of my Larson after hitting something doing about 45mph) nothing worked from the first boat to the second. So this was just one more thing that was replaced. No big deal and almost expected. You do have a good product but I still prefer the Bennets overall.

 

[Boatist]

Re: adding trim tabs

Wraenking<br />I would disagree strongly with one thing John said.<br /><br />""""To compensate for following seas when using helm controlled tabs or Smart Tabs the best correction comes from adjusting boat speed."""" <br /><br />With a following Sea You constantly adjust boat speed to stay on the back side of the swell but high enough you can see ahead. If you adjusted boat speed to controll your bow height one of two things is going to happened. <br />1: Your are going to go over the top of the swell and surf down the face drive the bow into the next swell and pitchpole. (A deadly experence) <br />2: If you slow down then you will be over taken by the swell behind. If there is no breaker then not a big deal as long as you know what to do. If there is a breaker then boat can be filled with water. Also breaker or no must control your speed and may even need reverse. Must make sure stern wave does not push the stern to one side and get you sideways on the wave where you will broach and the boat will roll over. <br /><br />In a big following sea do not use speed to control your bow lift, use your speed to stay on the safe part of the swell.<br /><br />I have nothing to gain by which tabs you buy but I feel helm controled tabs give you so much more control that they are worth every extra $. You can adjust your boat for any condition for the best safe ride, your can even steer your boat with them if necessary.<br /> <br />Only two reason I can think of where Helm controlled tabs may not be for you. 1: They cost too much. 2: You have a driver you do not think could learn how to control the boat with them.<br /><br />Any tab is better than no tab.

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: adding trim tabs

Hi Boatist;<br /><br />As for Handling the boat in following seas, I could not agree with you more and I have apparently not made myself clear. I do not believe you should adjust the speed of the boat for the purpose of raising or lowering the bow. I meant that when trying to control the boat in rough waters and especially following seas, the most effective tool is the throttle, and not allowing the boat to get in the wrong possition on the waves. Been there many times and it is not fun. I had a 30ft Carver Sedan Bridge with twin inboards and Bennett tabs and learned to use them well. That is not our market!<br /><br />What I was attempting to point out is that the Smart Tabs:<br /><br />1) do not reduce the effectiveness of the tilt trim<br />2) do not cause excessive stern lift and force bow down issues<br />3) throttle control in heavey seas is the single most effective means of controlling the boat.<br /><br />If I led anyone else to think otherwise I am sorry.

 

[Boatist]

Re: adding trim tabs

Hello John<br />I can agree with you on 1 and 3. On number 2 I have some disagreement.<br /><br /> <br />"""2) Smart Tabs do not cause excessive stern lift and force bow down issues."""<br /><br />While it may not be EXCESSIVE I belive they create the same stern lift at 15-20 MPH in a Following Sea as they do at 15-20 Mph headed into a sea. In a Following Sea I want no stern lift at all.<br />In a head See I want a different amount of stern lift every day, it just depends on conditions. Some days very little and some days a lot.<br /><br />I feel your tabs are not that smart. No smarter than the actuator spring. I will never buy anything I can not control from the helm. My boat is just a little 21 foot Crestliner aluminum runabout.<br /><br />Still I think the Smart Tabs are the right choice for many. I see them all the time.<br /> <br />The guy with a 24 foot bayliner running at 12 mph, motor trimed all the way out, he standing up trying to see over the bow. He has a wake bigger than some ocean swells.<br /><br />The guy at the boat ramp trying to lift his outdrive because it is dragging. He does not know where the trim or tilt switch is at. He may know how to trim but not how to tilt motor.<br /><br />The boats that never go out to sea and it takes 2 minutes to get up on plane and even then the bow is too high. You never know if the boats under powered or the guy thinks he get better Miles per gallon by starting slow or if he has it trimed out instead of trimed in, or if he had a ton of weight of weight in the back and nothing up front.<br /><br />Also I have seen some that just do not understand how to adjust the tabs for a great ride.<br /><br />As far as the best choice I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree.<br /><br />Have a Great Boating season.

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: adding trim tabs

Hi Boatist;<br /><br />The best product is what you are comfortable with, and you are obviously comforable and proficient with helm controled tabs. I have had people with helm controlled tabs question if they should change, because they don't know how to use them. My answer is learn!<br /><br />Thanks for the comments.<br /><br />John

 

[ThomWV]

Re: adding trim tabs

I wouldn't put trim tabs on any boat less than about 20 feet, I'd just use a foil if engine trim alone wasn't enough. At the same time I wouldn't put a foil on any boat more than 20 feet, simply because they are ineffective on boat's of that size or larger. Just my opnion though.<br /><br />If I had a boat that had a hull design that was so far off that I needed to put a fixed trim tab on it I'd sell the boat.<br /><br />Thom

 

[bossee]

Re: adding trim tabs

Hi,<br />Volvo Penta marine accessories department, QL Marine, has developed an interesting trim tab:<br />- made of composite, <br />- electrically controlled vertical plate (no horizontal plate) is producing "lift"<br />- is very small,<br />- very efficient,<br />- easy to mount,<br /> <br />It is released this summer I belive.<br />You will not find any information on their homepage yet http://www.qlmarine.com/ but they have showed the product at boat shows. Could be rather revolutionary on the trim tab market.<br /><br />

 

[Boatist]

Re: adding trim tabs

ThomWV<br />You are probably right if you like to drill holes in your cavatition plate. I made a fixed trim tab for my 1967 14 foot aluminum boat back in 1975. I changed motor from a 9 and 1/2 to a 1975 15 hp Johnson. Boat was fine with my buddies or the wife and kids up front but when alone the front was so light felt like the wind would blow it over. Moved the tilt pin all the way foward but still too light on the water. Moved the gas can and tackel box foward and that helped also. Finally made a trim tab out of some 1 inch square aluminum tubbing. Glued it on with silcone seal and it really helped. Took it back off and bent it off square for a little more down force. Glued both sides back on and it has been perfect since. <br /><br />I am sure the foils made today would work but for me drilling holes in the motor is very last thing I would do. Also I have seen a lot of broken foils. A very simple fixed tab worked for me when alone and could not tell the difference when I had a crew.

 

[Five-O]

Re: adding trim tabs

Very helpful thread, guys! I'm about ready to purchase and install some Smart-Tabs on my custom D15 Indian River Skiff. Love to fish the shallows of the Indian River and Mosquito Lagoon.<br /><br />My question is how well the Smart-Tabs hold up in a saltwater environment. Are they mostly stainless? Are the actuators salt-water resistent?<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Ron

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: adding trim tabs

Ron;<br /><br />All of the steel parts are marine grade Stailess 316, including plates (mirror finish), brackets, heinges, nuts and bolts. The actuators are enclosed in an air tight EPDM rubber boat to keep them both clean and resistant to water. We warranty the Actuators for two (2) years. The replacement cost after two years (which is the equivalent of rebuilding the system) is $49.99 per pair including the actuators and boots, from the factory. Also included in the kit is marine sealant material and complete instructions and templates. You supply the boat and a few tools.

 

[Link]

Re: adding trim tabs

Hi ThomWV<br />When I first purchased my boat a Almar 14ft river sled V front with with 10% dead rise in the back with a 45hp OB prop I couldn't keep the bow down when opening it up. Had to have small trim tabs welded on. Before tabs even at 3/4 throttle at about 35 MPH if I nailed it the bow would go straight up. (Scarey) A few months later when I dropped a 90HP OB pump on it the factory (at no charge! They are great people ) extented the tabs to about 8 inches and put high speed strakes on the bottom to keep from blowing out in tight corners.

 

[BillP]

Re: adding trim tabs

NautiJohn, <br />Your claims, among others, are tabs make the boat go faster. I assume that means top end speed and "6 mph" speed as shown on your advertisment? I don't understand (but very willing to learn) how more pressure and resistance on the stern improves top speed...unless the boat is underpowered and not getting up on a full plane in the first place. I don't get the math on that one. <br /><br />Isn't the "smart" part of your tabs a delayed retract and automatic deploy? If the tabs are set for one speed and a person shifts weight and load at that speed causing the hull to list, won't the tabs need to be re-adjusted to level the boat? Also, when the boat is trolling, do I understand your tabs would be fully deployed if the pressures were set for cruising speed? Or do they retract at trolling speed after a period of "bleed down"?

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: adding trim tabs

Bill P;<br /><br />Much of this has been explained in my other postings but let me try to answer your questions as briefly as possible, which is not my style as others will tell you.<br /><br />To get maximum speed out of the boat ( aside from making sure you have the correct prop) one of the most important factors is hull efficiency. With stern loaded boats ( OB or I/O ) the axis point of the boat is in the last 25% to 30%. This means that the forward portion up to the bow has a greater leverage advantage than the stern. When cruising and at max speed the common problem is trying to trim the motor so that the prop has maximum forward thrust. This is occurs when it is perpendicular to the water surface. However, in this position the forward portion of the boat will move up and down (porpoise) which keeps the boat from attaining top speed. Some boats porpoise more than others. The common remedy is to trim the motor down (under to lift the stern and create bow pressure) until the boat stops porpoising. Some boats will continue to porpoise. Now the top speed is limmited because the prop is not perpendicular to the water surface, because it is slipping the outer edges. However the porpoising is reduced or eliminated. Side to side (chine walking) also slows the boat but generaly can not be corrected with the prop. Smart Tabs, although not deployed (as the water pressure is greater than the actuator load) create enough load / resistance to eliminate the porpoising and allow the boat to run "clean" with the prop in the perpendicular position. Better prop bite, clean ride, better speed. It is simple, let the prop propel and the trim tabs control the attitude. The amount of load / resistance is adjustable to the boat requirements.<br /><br />At slow speeds and accelerating to plane, the tabs (deployed) keep the stern from dropping and of course the bow from rising. The result is easier planing and faster acceleration. Once the boat is on plane at say 15 MPH, the tabs are on the way up and by 20 MPH they are up. The "Smart" part of the actuator is that it takes more pressure to raise the tabs than in does to hold them up once they are up. The result is that you get the early extra lift to keep the stern from dropping, but limit the lift once on plane. This reduces the effects of excessive stern lift that would cause the bow down issues which slow the boat and make it bow steer. <br /><br />Once on plane the resistance is the same as the suspension system in your car. It controls the ride and resists changes in attitude. Each tab is independant.<br /><br />All of this is generaly contrary to popular thinking because we have been conditioned to use the prop and tilt/trim to control the boat attitude as well as propel the boat. Props should do one thing - propel. <br /><br />If you have any other questions I can send you a technical booklet with illustrations which explains "boat performance and balance". Send me your address via e-mail to John@NauticusInc.com Anyone else who would like a copy is welcome.