About ready to admit defeat!

loquito

Seaman Apprentice
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Apr 29, 2007
Messages
41
A short history:) I am using a factory manual for this motor!
It is a 1973 Johnson 65esl73.
It was overheated and blew the head gasket by #2 cylinder and slightly bowed the head in the middle.

A new water pump/thermastat as well as grometts for the the high presure relief valves were installed. It now has good water flow out of the discharge side(to old for a Pee-hole) as well as the exhaust manifold stays cool enough to the touch.
The head was lapped on a plate of glass to the point were a .003 (the smallest I had) feeler guage could not slide under the straight edge, and with the new head gasket I get about #130 on all three cylinders.

area's of concern still.
Two of the coils each had a small crack in the green plastic case. Both cracks were sealed up with High temp Black Silicone.
The overheat caused two drips of melted plastic (?) to drip down from under the flywheel where the stator is situated. The drip spots looked like grease but was harder so I am usuming it is a melted plastic type product.

So before discovery of the head gasket the boat saw water several times. The first ride it overheated thus the waterpump repair was performed.
After the water pump was fixed it hit the water again but never seemed to run real good. It also did not want to idle and I would need to choke it to restart it even after it was warmed up. During these trial runs the head gasket gave out thus the new head gasket work.

So my routine is to run around the lake at planing speed and not back of the gas too close to idle until I am near the dock. I stop and restart the motor only after I have pulled up next to the dock incase she won't restart.

So that is what I was doing last night and she was performing really well. Several time I docked shut her down and she started right back up without the choke and idled as she should so me and the dog launched again to do more around the lake trials.

The final lap was at WOT for about 10 min before we docked with a short no wake speed as we aproached the dock. I decided to go one more time but this time she needed the choke to start and had a low idle and died when she was put into gear. I was able to get her to start again on full choke but her idle was real low and she died on her own. So I went home.
At home on the muffs she started right up and sounded strong again. The ride home was around 20min.

In the driveway I checked her plugs and all three looked the same and were clean and dry. ( I used new plugs) I checked the compresion and had #130 across all three cylinders.

I dont think it is the head with it having such good compresion. I do not think the exhaust manifold was warped in the overheat becouse I cannot find any indication of water on the plugs. Though maybe i should be checking something else to tell if the exhaust manifold is my problem?

Could my problem be heat related? Like something that will only shows up when the engine is at opperating temps?
It was really running like a new motor for over 2 hours mostly at 3/4 throttle, the throttle was high and low but mostly 3/4 except for the final WOT run.
Thanks
Steven
 

iwombat

Captain
Joined
Jul 12, 2006
Messages
3,767
Re: About ready to admit defeat!

I'd be all over those coils if I were you. Did you check them with an ohm meter? Did you check them cold and hot? Once they crack they're done for, black silicone or no.
 

loquito

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
41
Re: About ready to admit defeat!

I'd be all over those coils if I were you. Did you check them with an ohm meter? Did you check them cold and hot? Once they crack they're done for, black silicone or no.
I did not check them at all. They can work strong cold and falter when hot?
The earlyer runs the boat was running really strong.
 

loquito

Seaman Apprentice
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Apr 29, 2007
Messages
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Re: About ready to admit defeat!

I just came in from the driveway and the engine started and stopped serval time without fault, she sounded very good. So back to the question of the coils faulting at opperating temps?
 

iwombat

Captain
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Messages
3,767
Re: About ready to admit defeat!

They can certainly fail when they get warm. If you've got cracks you should replace them.

Did you ever do a proper spark check to see if they're even operating properly when cold?
 

F_R

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
28,219
Re: About ready to admit defeat!

I don't see how you could possibly overheat it to the point of blowing the head gasket without warping the exhaust cover baffle plate. They warp just from running in weeds. There is virtually no support along the side of the exhaust port chamber. When they do warp, they squirt water into the exhaust ports, ultimately destroying the powerhead.

If nothing else, once you get it off you can see how bad you might have cooked the piston skirts.
 

loquito

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
41
Re: About ready to admit defeat!

They can certainly fail when they get warm. If you've got cracks you should replace them.

Did you ever do a proper spark check to see if they're even operating properly when cold?
No I did not do any checks on the coils. I assumed that since it ran so nice in the driveway and on the early runs that they were fine.
 

BoatBuoy

Rear Admiral
Joined
May 29, 2004
Messages
4,856
Re: About ready to admit defeat!

What FR said.

In addition, the way you describe the coils, replace them! If you continue to troubleshoot without replacing them, not only does it make no sense, you're probably not going to get much sympathy.
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Messages
51,019
Re: About ready to admit defeat!

do it right or waste a lot of time. the coils are going to leave you paddling.
 

loquito

Seaman Apprentice
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Apr 29, 2007
Messages
41
Re: About ready to admit defeat!

They can certainly fail when they get warm. If you've got cracks you should replace them.

Did you ever do a proper spark check to see if they're even operating properly when cold?
The proceedure in the book for checking coils is beyond me as I have no special tools. I did order three new coils as mine are over 30 years old. I also ordered the gaskets to pull the exhaust manifold and properly check that.
Is there a shade tree way to check ignition parts?
 

loquito

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Apr 29, 2007
Messages
41
Re: About ready to admit defeat!

I don't see how you could possibly overheat it to the point of blowing the head gasket without warping the exhaust cover baffle plate. They warp just from running in weeds. There is virtually no support along the side of the exhaust port chamber. When they do warp, they squirt water into the exhaust ports, ultimately destroying the powerhead.

If nothing else, once you get it off you can see how bad you might have cooked the piston skirts.
I have ordered the gaskets to reassemble the exhaust after I check it. Anything special I should be looking for?
 

iwombat

Captain
Joined
Jul 12, 2006
Messages
3,767
Re: About ready to admit defeat!

You can get a spark tester for about $10 at the auto parts store. It's an adjustable c-clamp looking thing. You attach the plug wire to one end, clip it to ground at the other and watch the spark jump across a 7/16" (adjustable) air gap. It should be bright blue. If it's not, you've got ignition issues that can be further diagnosed.

You can also make one yourself out of wood and nails.
 

loquito

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Apr 29, 2007
Messages
41
Re: About ready to admit defeat!

The exhaust was warped and repaired. I replaced all three coils as all three were 35 years old and cracked. the problem still is still there.
I will go buy the spark plug tester tomarow :)
 

loquito

Seaman Apprentice
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Apr 29, 2007
Messages
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Re: About ready to admit defeat!

I've read a bunch of threads pointing both twards the carbs as well as ignition parts.
I did find one tester for the spark plugs at the auto store. It did show that all three plugs were sparking.
I have good compretion across all three cylinders
I replaced all 3 coils as all three were old and cracked.

It runs great in the driveway as well as running great in the lake for the first half hour or so.
But after being run around the lake for a while it will want to die, if I stop it it won't want to restart unless fully choked and then only run for a minute or so with a weak erratic idle. By the time I get home it starts up fine again in the driveway.
I have read here that Power packs are either good or bad! Iv'e also read that PP can fail when heated up??? Some threads point twards carbs, Help I am lost.
 

loquito

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Apr 29, 2007
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Re: About ready to admit defeat!

So can anybody offer advice on were to look next?
 

HighTrim

Supreme Mariner
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Jun 21, 2007
Messages
10,486
Re: About ready to admit defeat!

Doesnt your factory manual have a test for the power pack with an ohmmeter??
 

Molaker

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
175
Re: About ready to admit defeat!

Your power pack is powered by the stator assembly (charge coils) and triggered by the timer base sensor coils. Any one of those 3 can fail with warm-up. Chances are, the stator and sensor are as old as your coils were. The power pack having electronic components is the most likely to fail, but is not necessarily your problem. You need a means of testing these unless you can afford to just throw money at it. There are several threads addressing test methods and proceedures.
 

HighTrim

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
10,486
Re: About ready to admit defeat!

If you dont have the PP test, I can send it to you, let me know though, bc i dont want to type it all out if i dont need to, lol ;)
 

WillyBWright

Fleet Admiral
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Dec 29, 2003
Messages
8,200
Re: About ready to admit defeat!

Know what HighTrim, that might make a good FAQ. :)

It's best to have specs, but the testing is rather similar between brands with a common ohmmeter. You can get cheap ones that work fine for ten bucks. Basically you test the trigger, stator, and coils. If they all have resistance within specs, they're probably good and the Power Pack would be the culprit by elimination. Even if you don't have the specs, failures tend to short to ground or have no continuity at all (broken wire). Dead shorts and open circuits are easy...the needle either pegs or doesn't move..
 
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