A few degrees closer to hell

[Boomyal]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

I am sure the same as it has over the last 6000 year warming trend . . .

Anybody see the Discovery Channel, Tom Brokaw special on Global Warming last night? Anybody notice the complete absence of any opposing opinions? Rebuttal to anything? Anybody hear the quote that "99.9% of scientists believe that Global Warming is caused by human activity". Anybody else believe that is a blatant lie?

BTW, it is flippin' hot here. Kinda humid too. We usually don't see this until late August/Sept. Maybe a butterfly flapped it's wings in China a little earlier than last year . . .

http://www.crichton-official.com/fear/index.html

You make my point QC. Hate to make this subject any more political but this is another prime example of the Libs trying to bring this country down to the level of the Third World. Call it what you will, so many of the rank and file libs have developed a huge guilt complex over the state of wealth and priviledge of this country.

The liberal elite uses this issue as a means to reduce the masses of this country to sniveling dependants. Cut the use of energy=destroy the economy=makes everone dependant on???guess who. The libs.

Global warming undoubtedly exists. Man's puny little existance is not causing it. It has happened many times in history. It's like the ozone hole scare. It began to close up before we even used up our extensive stocks of chloro-flouro carbons.

Someday the rank and file libs will get religion and quit looking to the saving of Mother Earth to provide their salvation.

No where else could power mongers like the liberal Democrats make such headway except in a country that is already down and out or a country whose citizens have lost any sense of the awe of the universe AND it's Creator.

 

[Triton II]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

On Sunday it was a balmy 74F and not a cloud in the sky, today it's 65F and raining. Typical mid-winter Sydney weather. Our biggest problem is the opposite to SS Mayfloat's... not enough rain and when it does rain it's not in the reservoir catchment areas! I hope all those suffering in the heatwave get some relief soon... here we know only too well what 110F and 99% humidity can be like - yuk! :%

 

[PW2]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

Well, there are only a few scientists that will take the opposing side, and then to say that the theory is not completely proven, and not that it is wrong.

And most of those scientists you can trace their funding back to the fossil fuel industry.

As near as I can tell, the major arguments against it are not that it doesn't exist, but only that it is inconvenient if true.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

I watched that Discovery Channel thing very carefully, looking to see how things were phrased. Not once did anyone say that the human race is 100% the cause of the current upward climb in overall temps. No one ever said any one thing is a definate cause. What they looked at was the icecore samples that showed the CO2 content in the atmosphere for the last several hundred thousand years. There was a cyclical pattern that increased dramatically in the last century, which coincidentally happens to coincide with the industrialization of the world. Does this mean we are actually killing the planet? What I gained from the program along with other data is that no matter what you believe, we are putting more CO2 into the atmosphere than the planet can process. There really is no debating that. Especially with China ramping up their economy, it is even worse.

Maybe I was just paying attention and being objective, but that Discovery program did not in any way say that we are 100 % the cause of global warming.

Does that mean we should continue on our current path? Lets just keep pouring millions of tons of carbon into the atmosphere by living inefficiently because no one can 100% say what we are doing is wrong. That makes just as much sense as letting someone shoot you with a gun because not everyone dies from gunshot wounds.

I actually side with Bush on this. He says "the jury is out" on global warming. He is saying that no one can say one way or the other for sure. He is also saying, if anyone chooses to pay attention to things they don't want to hear, that we need to clean up our act.

So, are we actually causing the rise in temps due to our excessive carbon output? No one knows for sure. Is this just part of the 30 year cycle? No one knows for sure. To say that it isn't happening at all is just as foolish as it is to say that it is definatley happening. Our grandkids will know the answer, that I can say with confidence....

I do agree with Ron G. The planet will fix itself. The fact that we will probably not be along for the next ride is what people should consider. But who am I kidding. Its all about the McMansions and the Escalades, its all about the Now. They are debating the shale oil reserves under Colorado. they are saying that in 5 years, if we start now, we would tap into the largest deposit of oil on earth, in our own country. We would rule the petrolium world. Now that I don't have a problem with, but if we get that second chance, we should be smart, not just build bigger and less efficient vehicles and live even more selfishly. McMansions and Escalades.....

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

I am enjoying the week of Summer here in VT..... it makes us appreciate the snow!

Jason..... Global Warming !! I blame all the new big bad propane grills with 6 burners.... (yeah I have one). We never had this global warming when we all used good old charcoal!!

 

[treedancer]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

It reached 100 plus here today ,was nice in the pool though. d

 

[QC]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

Jason,

One guy said "99.9% of scientists" and my point was no opposing views were noted. Check the link I posted, pretty interesting . . .

PW2,

Pretty convenient to use "inconvenient" . . . Crichton's point that I picked up on from the link I posted is that the opposing views are primarily from retired scientists . . . ones that take no grant money from anybody as opposed to the lion's share of those supporting who get grants from the environmental community. This thing, like most, can be sliced both ways.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

QC, one problem with the retired scientists not be listened to is the fact that they are retired. Which means they don't have the money to do the research, which means they can't come up with an informed conclusion. Their word is just as flawed as the funded scientists, but if the retired scientists are telling people what they want to hear, then that is okay, right? It would be nice if there could be some serious funding to look at this issue objectively, and not tree-huggerly. The problem with that is the people who are being told what they don't want to hear will still shreik to the sky that the science is wrong.

I also agree that the statement of 99.9 percent of scientists say global warming exists could be utter bollocks. Statistics can be scewed in whatever direction you want. A friend of mine did a thesis on statistics in college. He called it "100 percent of people who eat pickles will die". Of course they will, everyone dies eventually, and that was the point. Statistics cannot be relied on, because they are generated by people who have a vested interest in the final outcome of what their statistics are based on.

That is why we have to look at the facts. The facts are, we are dumping more carbon into the atmosphere than have ever been before in the history of the planet. It has been shown that the envirnoment eventually reacts to trauma in the atmosphere. Those ice ages caused by too much material in the atmosphere due to huge volcanic eruptions or meteor strikes. Or does none of that data matter because according to some life on earth has only existed for 6000 years? That just scares the crap out of me, I don't want my my grandchildrens lives to depend on maybes and hopefullys.

So basically I have to choose between one side saying we are not doing anything wrong and have no scientific data to back them up (very convenient) or the other side saying we are screwing everything up and have scientific data but it doesn't count because the data was generated by people who are paid for their work so they must be being influenced by The Evil Left Who Are Bent On Ruling The Earth. My God, that is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard in my life. I just wish people would just say what they mean instead of hiding behind their words. Admit it folks, people want to do what they want to, and they don't want to hear anything that contradicts that desire. They want to drive the huge vehicles, live in the huge houses, and burn all the resources in their lifetime, and die with a big grin on their face, peaceful in the knowledge they lived their life the way they wanted to, and to hell with everyone else. I can respect that, even if I don't agree with it.

Hey, I am not a treehugger, I have a gas sucker truck and an inefficient boat, but I still conserve. I drive less, I plan my fishing so I only use a few gallons verses a whole tank. I only use $30 a month in electricity, I recycle, all of it. I do what I can, even when everyone around me doesn't. I do hope they tap that shale oil reserve in Colorado, I think they should tap ANWR, I am all for more nuclear power plants. I want us free of the clutches of the Middle east. Thats a teet I am tired of suckling....

The treehuggers and the head-in-sanders suffer from the same problem. They both are convinced they are right and don't want to hear argument to the contrary. Me, I am just sitting here baffled by both sides, especially considering the solution is so simple and everyone wins.

And yes, I do like those killer 6 burner propane grills...d

 

[QC]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

Jason,

We agree on most. I want to clarify a few things just in case you were referring to me . .

I mentioned 6000 years as a warming trend. I believe in a 4 -5 Billion year old earth . . . I use believe on purpose, because even that statement requires faith.

I don't believe in almost any conspiracies, especially big ones. I do think people generally need to be frightened of something and there are plenty of people to stand up and make money on those fears. Some choose to be frightened of the environment, some choose to be frightened of disease, I choose to be frightened of human evil. The type that is waged directly on each other not indirect results of unproven effects of man's existence.

I don't respect people who waste for the sake of wasting although I have done just that at times in my life too.

I think the retired scientists are pointing out that there is flawed data reported as science. That is dangerous. I don't care which "side" you are on.

I remain skeptical about the role of man on "Global Warming", no head in the sand, skeptical. I also am extremely skeptical about our ability to do anything meaningful to reverse any warming regardless of the source. With that said, I have posted before that I am in favor of almost all technical "solutions" as most of them standalone as good technology with or without any benefit to something that we probably cannot affect.

Dang!!! I only have five burners!!!

 

[Dave Abrahamson]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

I read that the polar ice caps on Mars are melting also......Them danged greys are at it again .(the greens are the good ones)..they have the 8 burner grills.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

QC, I am not implying you, or anyone in particular, is the way I described. I am generalizing. Its cool. I think we are pretty much in near total agreement, just saying it differently. I too am skeptical, which is why I am trying to pay as much attention and be as objective as I can while working my job and living my life. At least you have five burners, I just have an old bricket grill...d

 

[kfraser]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

Still tickling 100* here in Missouri. I need to find out where Treedancer lives, so I can use his pool.....

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

Enjoy what you have and let the future generations sort it out, we cannot just do it all, if we did they would'nt have anything else to do, and we all know that being idle is not good for the heart.

 

[rottenray6402]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

My grill only has 4 burners so I'm superior to you energy wasting consumers. Fly over Alaska, Canada, the Yukon, Russia, Africa, South America, and so on and try to determine how we as pitiful little life forms could actually affect the weather or global warming. For every square foot that is built on there has to be a bazzillion square miles of good old mother nature. When the Exxon Valdez ran aground in Prince William Sound they spent a bunch of money on the clean up effort with very limited success. After a couple of years of storms and season cycles mother earth healed herself with almost no sign of the disaster. I'm not saying they shouldn't have cleaned and by all means we never want it to happen again but the earth can and will heal itself. The loss of wild life was tragic.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

I'm leaving in the morning for Wisconsin,I heard the high this weekend is only going to be 80.....That will be nice!
I will be bouncing around the midwest for the next 4 weeks..
I hope it cools off!
I might have to look up Kagee...We still need to get his Smart Tab fund going..8)

 

[scrapper]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

My grill only has 4 burners so I'm superior to you energy wasting consumers. Fly over Alaska, Canada, the Yukon, Russia, Africa, South America, and so on and try to determine how we as pitiful little life forms could actually affect the weather or global warming. For every square foot that is built on there has to be a bazzillion square miles of good old mother nature. When the Exxon Valdez ran aground in Prince William Sound they spent a bunch of money on the clean up effort with very limited success. After a couple of years of storms and season cycles mother earth healed herself with almost no sign of the disaster. I'm not saying they shouldn't have cleaned and by all means we never want it to happen again but the earth can and will heal itself. The loss of wild life was tragic.

Your right ! Mother Earth will heal herself , But its kinda like a scab on you'r arm in a way, If you keep picking at it , It takes longer to heal and always leaves a scar!

 

[roscoe]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

Where you gonna be in Wis Gary? Might come visit you.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

Hey Roscoe, Appleton Wisc for the weekend. Doing a Nascar promo for a Fleet Farm store..On West Wisc.Ave Sat and Sun.
Not sure how far from Medford that is..Drop in and say hi if your close by..8)

 

[heycods]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

What JB said. d

 

[JB]

Re: A few degrees closer to hell

Interesting phenomenon.

Topped out at 108* at The Hideout today.

I just stepped out to the porch for a smoke and it felt comfortable. Checked the thermometer. . .100*. Dang, I must be acclimating.