9th "Circus" Court

[Bob_VT]

I am sincerely distressed (real mad ) that in light of the past years events that a ruling would be made on OUR PLEDGE!<br /><br />I know there are always both sides to view but an easier decision would be to allow the child to leave the room during the pledge or just remain silent.<br /><br />It's plain sad.<br /><br />My response is if you don't like the way we are doing business here in United States of America you are free to leave.<br /><br />Bob

 

[JB]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

Hi, Bob.<br /><br />I think we disagree on this one.<br /><br />We are guaranteed the right to practice our religions, we are free to express out patriotism.<br /><br />The Constitution forbids the government to mix them or to establish any connection to any religion. The Eisenhower amendment to the original, and legal, pledge does just that: States a religious belief on behalf of our government.<br /><br />We may do as we please as private citizens, but the government is restricted. Religious beliefs must be seperate from official government actions.<br /><br />Sorry.

 

[newt]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

With respect to all who differ, I also am dissapointed with the ban on the pledge. <br /><br />As one who does not follow any specific religion or faith, I may fall under the "atheist" catagory, yet I do not find the pledge offensive, intrusive, or dissagreeable in any way. <br /><br />I am a big fan of separation bewtween church and state, and I think our goverment does a fine job of maintaining this separation. The pledge as written does not impose any specific religion on my personal freedom. To ban the pledge opens up too many doors. What is next? Get rid of all US currency because on the back it states "In God We Trust"? <br /><br />It is interesting to note that Christians, Jews, and Muslims all believe in the same god...., and most all religions believe in some sort of a god. It is the specifics of the religions that differentiate each one.<br /><br />Just my .02...

 

[ehenry]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

What Newt said!!!

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

JB do not say sorry! We are entitled to our views and yours is always respected. We can agree to disagree.. on what you stated but I just feel that the "Pledge of Allegiance" is something I hold sacred.<br /><br />If someone disagreed on the wording of the Declaration of Independance I still do not feel it merits changing or deleting words. Should we allow publicity of when our President attends religious services...that rings true of Church and State.<br /><br />I am set in my ways and just feel the parents have the right to guide their children (weather we agree or not)with or without religion but I feel this is extreme. The parents that brought the suit are impeding on the Freedom of Choice<br />for us who still have religious beliefs.<br /><br />Newt summed it up by asking "what is next"?<br /><br />Bob <br /><br />Incidently the decision is on "hold"

 

[thornious]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

sorry to everyone that disagrees.<br /><br />BUT NO WAY SHOULD THEY BAN THE PLEDGE. Some things should be just left alone. People like this guy get an idea in there head and their off to court. That's is one of the main problems in this country, peoples abuse of the legal system. <br />For every little problem people go to court, it seems everyone forgot how to workout their own issues.<br /><br />I hate to say it but the court probably did the correct thing by making the ruling when following the exact rule of law. But they should of never of been put in the situation to a make a decision like that the first place. Haven't these people ever heard of "if it aint broke don't fix it" "leave well enough alone" "don't make a mountain out of a mole hill" "fight the good fight" <br /><br />well enough for now this kind of thing just

 

[Down South]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

Hi Bob,<br />I agree with you on this one. The pledge of allegiance is part of our heritage. It made me sick to hear this on the news the other day. The seperation of church and state wasn't designed to keep people from using the word God in public places. It was to keep the goverment from preventing the way we worshiped God. It had nothing to do with people who didn't believe in God. (That's their problem)

 

[wvit100]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

I don't think the courts made a good decision to get rid of the pledge from the schools. However, I can see where the arguement is coming from and I think it's good to talk about what exactly we want the pledge to mean. Do you want it to be for all the people of the country to pledge their loyalty to our country or do you want only the people who believe in our Christian god. <br /><br />I believe in the seperation of Church and State. That is the principle that this country was settled on, freedom from religious persecution. In saying that the government shouldn't support any certain religion, it isn't saying that the government is against religion, just that the gov. doesn't support it. <br /><br />Everyone is free to go to any church, practice any religion they want in their homes, pray in restruants prior to the meal, you can stand on the sidewalk and preach a sermon, etc. It's just that the government can't support any one particular religion, christian or otherwise. I think this is what we are getting caught up in - if you aren't for something then your against it - I don't think that's the case.<br /><br />The statement about God was put into the pledge in the 50's by a congress that was bowing to the anti-communism that was sweeping the country and to a very christian religious group that was lead by the Knights of Columbus. I agree that most religions believe in a god of one sort or another, but I think in this country it is clear which god is refered to in the pledge. A history of the pledge can be found at<br /><br /> http://www.ifx.net/~wjohnson/pledge.htm <br /><br />So I think the guestion should really be. Do you need to mention God when pledging your allegence to our country? I don't think the two really have anything to do with each other.

 

[JB]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

Hi guys.<br /><br />With respect, the pledge that has been judged unconstitutional is NOT the pledge that is part of our heritage.<br /><br />The amendment of the Pledge, in 1954, was exactly what Bob is concerned about: People changed our heritage to include what the constitution forbade: their religious beliefs injected in an official ceremony.<br /><br />They might just as well have changed the DOI.

 

[newt]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

Interesting points about the changed pledge. Personally, I just do not think it is worth the fight or the percieved lack of patriotism to try and change it.<br /><br />But herin is the beauty of this country....If you don't like the way things are, you have the right to try and change them.<br /><br /> GOD Bless America .....

 

[wvit100]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

Just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean that you can't be loyale and ready to lay down your life for this country. You shouldn't be throwing around words that exclude people because of their religious beliefs. Saying that if they don't like something they should just leave, or questioning their right to pronouce their love and loyalty to this country, by saying they should leave the room, just because they don't want to invoke the name of some god that they don't believe in is wrong.

 

[DaleT]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

As an outright atheist, I find the idea of banning the pledge to be absurd. First, this case, if I'm not mistaken, was about a young child being "forced" to participate in the reciting of the pledge. I keep asking myself how can one so young really think on the deeper plain of religion? I'm not saying children can't be religious, just wondering if they can truly grasp the greater concepts. Secondly, parents will play a much greater roll in developing their childrens religious beliefs than saying a pledge in the wee hours of the school day. I admit, it is somewhat drilled into the heads of impressionable youth. However, I feel this will only cause most children to seek further knowledge, at which time the parent can interject their own beliefs and steer the child in whatever direction they see fit. As you might be able to tell, I feel this whole thing is more or less an issue of parents not taking responsibility for their children. Nevertheless, if the courts ruling is left to stand then only the offending section should be removed as to maintain the pledge and it's original integrity.

 

[JB]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

I agree with Dale.<br /><br />Go back to the original Pledge, just remove the religious phrase.

 

[DJ]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

All,<br /><br />Too many of you are buying into the falacy that the the constitution seperates church and state. Guess what, it isn't there. The constitution merely states that the government shall not "establish" a religion.<br /><br />Our forefathers escaped religious persecution from a state (read government) established religion. That's is why they put the clause in the constitution. They felt strongly enough about the peoples right to worship as they pleased, to add it.<br /><br />Whether anyone likes it or not, this nation was founded on Christian principles. THe forefathers just wanted to make sure that church officials were not making government decisions, as they did in England in combination with the royalty.<br /><br />Having the word "God" in the pledge certainly does not "establish" a religion.<br /><br />The word "god" is used in may different cultures and means different things to different people.<br /><br />Shall we remove the word GOD from every memorial in Washington and from the walls of the Supreme Court and our currency?<br /><br />If you do not want to say it don't. That's the beauty of the USA, YOU DON'T HAVE TO, but don't deny me my right to do so.

 

[crab bait]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

i'm surprized it lasted this long..!! i really thought the ' pleadge' bit-the-dust with the school prayer... what really 'GETS' me is the-powers-that-be won't even allow a 'moment-of-silents' ..!! what the HECK is wrong with that...!! it's a pity ..turnin' into a godless country....

 

[derwood]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

Howdy gentalmen...excuse me while i find my white wig...darn, i think my wife burnt it.<br /><br />The whole thing to me is obsurd.<br /><br />With all of the horible things going on in the U.S.A. you would think that they would have bigger fish to fry. <br /><br />When the person who started this thing walked in to the lawyers office and told them what he wanted to sue for, the lawyer should have laughed and said "Pam, call security and get this nut out of here."<br /><br />This contry is a free one and we have the right to sue for just about anything that we want to. <br />Unfourtunantly we sometimes abuse the privlage given to us and fill the system with nonsence.<br /><br />There is'nt a hole lot that offends me to the point of calling the law in on it. If the guy next door wants to practice voodoo...what the h$ll do i care as long as he is'nt killing pepole or letting it affect the way that i conduct my personal life.<br /><br />If you don't like whats on a tv channel you don't sue the tv station, you change the channel. Pepole are so spoiled that they put their own personal peeves on the court systems doorstep and take up time and money that should be aloted to other more importent things.<br /><br />Take the Jewfish for example: This fish was named the Jewfish for who knows what reason a long time ago (before my time). Then somebody decides that after all this time (probly after a bad day at the office), they decide that it has suddenly offended them. After a long and exspencive court case (nothing to do with lawyers and courts is cheap) that took up time that could be spent prosicuting a childraper or a murderer or some corp. exe that stole billions of dollars from millions of pepole, we now have a new (old) fish called the Golieth grouper.<br /><br />Big F'en deal!<br /><br />The fish is still the same fish but Misses Liberty is still sobbing over the loss of her sons and daughters to drugs and murderers and rapest, corp. thives and international terrorists.<br /><br />Weather or not my children say God or not during the pledge is not near as important to me as them being able to walk out of the school and not be abducted, rapped and killed by the strange man in the old ford pickup just outside the school grounds, that is there because some court was to busy to fully prosicute this man in lue of getting the name of a sewer lid changed from "manhole" to "personhole" so some stupid person can smile at himself in the mirror and feel important!<br /><br />I cant remember of any damage ever being done for saying the pledge or not saying it, but joe killer is a busy bee because no one has time to convict him.<br /><br />Thats my opinion. i don't think there is any thing wroung with the system persay, just in the way pepole inturpret the way it is sposed to be used to protect their freedoms.<br /><br />Use the force luke, don't abuse it!<br /><br />derwood

 

[ebbtide176]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

this issue floored me. i felt like djohns at first thought, and now like derwood. i know balance is necessary (left vs right), but this topic makes me nauseous to see it come up. i can't even find anything optimistic surrounding this high court debate

 

[Trent]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

Red Skelton

 

[Down South]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

Hi Folks,<br /> I've been to the camp for the past several days. I came home and saw this topic was still a hot one.<br /><br />I guess Trent was able to get the message across that many of us were trying to.

 

[Alrobot]

Re: 9th "Circus" Court

Our country was founded upon the idea of "freedom OF Religion" These Yahoo's with too much time on their hands are making it "Freedom FROM Religion". I live within the 9th district and when my oldest daughter starts kindergarten in September we will be standing as a family in front of her school reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, anyone in southern California is welcome to join us, just send an email and I will let you know when and where...<br /><br />Al...<br /><br />P.S. Thank you for posting the Red Skelton Website.