90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

[WaterTiger]

I have a 24 ft. Bentley pontoon with a 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard 2005. Info on the boat is as follows-

serial number on the boat is 1B052505
Year 2005
90ELPTO
Starter label says 50-66015-2

Over the summer the motor strained a bit to start. On a few occassions I would have to trim the motor up to get it to turn over and eventually start. Finally the motor would not start at all. I assumed it was either the batteries or the starter. I replaced the batteries first without success, so ordered a starter online which arrived this week.

I pulled off the old starter and put on the new one today and have encountered a interesting item which I have not seen before. When I turn the ignition there is a single clicking noise and then the gear on the starter turns. The gear does not rise up to meet the flywheel on the motor but rather just sits there and spins.

When I manually move the gear up and interlock it with the flywheel and turn the ignition, the flywheel turns a few inches at most and the starter clicks but nothing more happens.

I am trying to figure ou why the gear on the starter does not move up and interlock with the flywheel as it is supposed to. I added some WD40 to the starter just in case it was sticking however this had no affect.

The starter was bought online and is a pretty cheap one compared to others that I saw however I would expect it to at least engage the flywheel. Any pointers or help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[JB]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

Ahoy, Tiger.

Welcome to iboats.

Classic symptoms of resistance (corrosion) in the starter electric circuit.

The most common cause is corrosion in the connection of the battery ground cable to the engine block, but other connections can be involved and corrosion in the cables themselves may contribute.

Take both battery cables loose at both ends. Examine the cables for swollen or weak spots, then scrub the connectors shiny and reconnect.

The bad news is that you probably didn't need battery or starter, merely a few minutes of preventive maintenance. Clean those connections as routinely as you replace impellers.

Good luck, and let us know what happens.

 

[sutor623]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

The bad news is that you probably didn't need battery or starter, merely a few minutes of preventive maintenance. Clean those connections as routinely as you replace impellers.

Agreed. Well we all learn the hard way. I guess the lesson here is to try the simplest solutions first, and then move on to the more complex ones. Although, at least this fella knows he has a fresh battery and starter!

 

[Texasmark]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

Ahoy, Tiger.

Welcome to iboats.

Classic symptoms of resistance (corrosion) in the starter electric circuit.

The most common cause is corrosion in the connection of the battery ground cable to the engine block, but other connections can be involved and corrosion in the cables themselves may contribute.

Take both battery cables loose at both ends. Examine the cables for swollen or weak spots, then scrub the connectors shiny and reconnect.

The bad news is that you probably didn't need battery or starter, merely a few minutes of preventive maintenance. Clean those connections as routinely as you replace impellers.

Good luck, and let us know what happens.

If this doesn't fix it, get a pair of common pliers and wearing a pair of gloves, use the handles of the pliers to jump across the starting solenoid putting the 12v input on the output wire to the starter. If it jumps to life or acts like it wants to, get another solenoid. The internal contacts of yours are pitted and cannot carry enough current to spin up the Bendix on the starter and get you going. And yes sparks will fly. It only takes a second to have your answer.

HTH,

Mark

 

[WaterTiger]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

Thanks for all the quick respones. I plan to go over the cables today even though I had done a basic job of this already. I'll put a bit more time into the connections.

The question I have about this is that the starter gear is turning, and turning fast when I turn the ignition which led me to believe that the starter was getting current. The issue is that the gear does not rise up to meet the flywheel but rather just sits there and spins. Further, when I manally turn the starter gear and rise it up to engage with the flywheel, I turn the ignition only to see motor flywheel turn about one inch and then the starter just starts clicking.

I was thinking that the sarter was either the wrong one and did not have the torque to push the motor flywheel or is the right one and just bad. The starter I bought is here - http://www.usautoelectric.com/store...-60,-70,-75,-80,-85,-90,-95--HP_35900378.html

It just seemed that if there was a bad connection that the starter would not be getting any juice or doing anything at all but then again that is why I decided to post to the forum, toget other opinions.

Again, thanks for the help and any further info you can provide.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

The starter draws a great deal of current (amps) in order to spin the engine. It is oviously not getting the required current or it would spin the engine easily. The fact that is spins quickly (seemingly) when the bendix is not engaged is quite simple to understand. There is no load on the starter. When you clean cables, remember that each one has two ends (the one at the battery and the one at the engine). Both must be shiny clean and tightened securely. Looking at them is not a check. Your next check should be to use jumper cables. Connect the black one to the negative post on the battery and the other to a good ground on the engine block. The other cable gets connected to the positive post on the starter. Momentarily touch the engine end of the POSITIVE jumper cable directly to the post on the starter. If it now spins normally you have bad cables or a bad solenoid. If not, you bought a bad starter. You can repeat this test on the old starter without installing it on the engine.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

The starter draws a great deal of current (amps) in order to spin the engine. It is oviously not getting the required current or it would spin the engine easily. The fact that is spins quickly (seemingly) when the bendix is not engaged is quite simple to understand. There is no load on the starter. When you clean cables, remember that each one has two ends (the one at the battery and the one at the engine). Both must be shiny clean and tightened securely. Looking at them is not a check. Your next check should be to use jumper cables. Connect the black one to the negative post on the battery and the other to a good ground on the engine block. The other cable gets connected to the positive post on the starter. Momentarily touch the engine end of the POSITIVE jumper cable directly to the post on the starter. If it now spins normally you have bad cables or a bad solenoid. If not, you bought a bad starter. You can repeat this test on the old starter without installing it on the engine.

In support of this comment:

My owners manual for a 90 hp triple says 120 amperes. For the 4 cylinder engines in this hp range it says 150 amperes. You need to get about 11 volts at the starter to get a good snappy spin. If the battery is fully charged to 12.75 (works for me) you can only loose 1.75 volts across all the interconnect elements from the innerds of the battery to the innerds of the starter. At 150 amperes, it takes less than 0.02 ohm of resistance in the circuit to eat that up. For just how much that is, the leads on your multimeter that you use to measure something that small have roughly 0.3 ohms of resistance themselves. In short, everything has to be "clean, bright, and tight" and that means where the current flows (inside) not necessarily on the outside where it may look nice and shiny, but that's all it does.

Mark

 

[WaterTiger]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

So I hooked the starter up directly to the battery as had been suggested above. The gear on the started did what it had in the past and just spun at a high speed but it did not raise up even the slightest amount to engage with the flywheel.

From this I can only assume that the starter is not good and needs to be replaced even tough it is new. Any other suggestions would be apprecaited or confirmation that my assumption is correct. Thanks to everyone for hte help.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

The starter gear is an inertia drive, the sudden acceleration of the motor causes the drive to screw its way up the threaded shaft. It is imperative that all cable connections be clean bright and tight, the battery be in good health and fully charged, and the starter relay have good contacts. Any poor connection anywhere and the system will not flow the high current necessary for the starter motor to suddenly snap to full speed.

Any lubrication on the threaded shaft can cause dirt, dust, and grime to accumulate and restrict the free movement of the threaded drive. Dry silicone lubes are O.K., but any grease or oils are NOT recommended.

 

[WaterTiger]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

Thanks again for the info. I tried the same test on the starter with new pair of jumper cables I have and with the battery for my car, which was repalced about 6 months ago.

I received the same results, the gear just spins and never makes its way up the shaft. I also tested the old starter this same way and it does nothing at all. So, it looks like I probably did not need to replace the batteries but the starter seems to be the culprit.

Now I have to deal with the online company I bought the starter from to get it returned.

Appreciate all the help.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

Thanks again for the info. I tried the same test on the starter with new pair of jumper cables I have and with the battery for my car, which was repalced about 6 months ago.

I received the same results, the gear just spins and never makes its way up the shaft. I also tested the old starter this same way and it does nothing at all. So, it looks like I probably did not need to replace the batteries but the starter seems to be the culprit.

Now I have to deal with the online company I bought the starter from to get it returned.

Appreciate all the help.

Jumper cables are 8 AWG at best. For your 3 cyl triple, your normal load starting current is 120 amperes and you only have about 1 volt you can sacrifice in the process. Jumper cables will not get you there.

Mark

 

[CharlieB]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

With the starter removed and testing on the bench, jumper cables should be fine. The motor should 'snap' to speed in an instant, if not, there is a problem with brush contact, a bad armature, or broken magnet(s).

Many on-line companies are surprisingly easy to deal with, a simple phone call, or email, explaining the problem as a defective part, and they usually give you a Return Authorization.

 

[lncoop]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

Welcome aboard tiger. I have a 2002 ninety horse three banger that did the same thing to me on the lake summer before last. As it turned out the bendix was just barely seized to the shaft. I tapped the shaft pretty aggressively with my multi-tool and managed to free up the bendix enough to get it to mate with the flywheel. I just left the cowl off for what was left of the day in case I had to do it again, which I did intermittently. That evening I put a couple of drops of Three In One oil on a paper towel and wiped the shaft with it, then I worked the bendix up and down manually until I was confident it would spin up the shaft as designed. A season and a half of boating later all is still well. Not entirely sure what's going on with your situation, but it sounds very familiar. If the duck quacks feed it. Good luck partner.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

With the starter removed and testing on the bench, jumper cables should be fine. The motor should 'snap' to speed in an instant, if not, there is a problem with brush contact, a bad armature, or broken magnet(s).

Sure. It's unloaded sitting on the bench and not pulling anyway near 120 amperes that it could connected to the flywheel.

Mark

 

[CharlieB]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

That first instant of armature acceleration, whether installed, or on the bench, the starter is un-loaded.

This is the 1 1/2 to 2 turns that 'screws' the drive up the shaft. The instant acceleration of the motor is critical to the drive functioning correctly.

If the motor will not accelerate instantly, it has a problem.

A 200 amp starter can draw upwards of 1000 amps during this initial acceleration.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

That first instant of armature acceleration, whether installed, or on the bench, the starter is un-loaded.

This is the 1 1/2 to 2 turns that 'screws' the drive up the shaft. The instant acceleration of the motor is critical to the drive functioning correctly.

If the motor will not accelerate instantly, it has a problem.

A 200 amp starter can draw upwards of 1000 amps during this initial acceleration.

Theoretically, until it builds up counter EMF from the armature spinning. But Charlie buddy, you ain't a gonna get 1000 amps out of a 12v battery. The internal resistance of the battery will prevent it if nothing else. Easy to test the internal resistance. Hook up a battery load tester and crank it up to 200 amperes. Read the voltage on the meter, do your ohms law and there is your battery resistance.

Mark.

 

[scorpio78ace]

Re: 90 HP 3cyl Mercury Outboard Starter Question

I had some of the same problems with my 89 85hp motor not strong enough to turn over the motor.I had replaced the battery to a new deep cycle battery and was still having the same issues.Finnally what I did was take the starter off and pull the insides of the starter housing out and blow all the dust and off with a air hose.Be carfull when doing this .There are several small metal pieces spring loaded that have to be lined up correctly to get it back together.Once I did that I haven't had any more problems and it's been three years already.