89 125 won't go into forward gear

[nvanzee]

I have an 89 125hp force that I recently bought for my pontoon. First time out it would make a clunking noise going into forward gear for a couple seconds before it locked in. Tried adjusting the linkages but didn't seem to help. Used it that way a few times was just easy on it. Tried taking it out last weekend and had no forward gear at all. Reverse works fine. Tried disconnecting the cable and manually shifting it and it won't go. With a lot of pressure I can get it to start clunking but won't lock in. Now I'm scrambling to get this fixed before the holiday weekend.
I pulled the lower unit thinking the forward gear was toast. Pulled the prop shaft and the gears look ok. Have some wear but don't look too bad. Here's where my questions come in.
I can't get the driveshaft out to fully inspect the forward gear. I pulled the nut off the pinion along with the water pump housing and top plate but can't get it to come out. Is there something I'm missing or is the pinion just really stuck on the shaft?
Also how much end play should the driveshaft and prop shaft have? I know the prop shaft moved in and out a little. Not sure if it's really excessive or not. The drives shaft will move a lot though. Like 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch. Is that normal?
I'm thinking my problem is that the gears all pushing away from each other causing it not to lock into gear.
Reverse has always worked fine but I did notice since I out the motor on it would stick in reverse when shifted to neutral. I always had to go just past neutral into forward to get it to actually go into neutral. Then I could put the shifter back to neutral and be fine. I assumed it was an adjustment issue no wondering if it has to do with endplay in the prop/drive shaft.
Back to the driveshaft I noticed looking at a parts diagram there is supposed to be a crush sleeve on top of the upper bearing. Mine doesn't have that...... Which I'm guessing would take care of my endplay issue. I plan on picking on up tomorrow for it.
So with all that said could the missing crush sleeve be causing it not to go into gear??
Sorry for the long post. Just trying to give as much info as I can to save time and hopefully get some good ideas on a fast repair.

After looking at it some more it doesn't look like the missing crush ring on the driveshaft could cause it not to go into forward. The pinon is still making contact with the forward gear. Also putting the top cover back on it has less endplay. Obviously I'll still get a crush ring for it but I don't think that is my problem. Still can't get the driveshaft out to further inspect the forward gear.

 

[The Force power]

I have an 89 125hp force that I recently bought for my pontoon. First time out it would make a clunking noise going into forward gear for a couple seconds before it locked in. Tried adjusting the linkages but didn't seem to help. Used it that way a few times was just easy on it. Tried taking it out last weekend and had no forward gear at all. Reverse works fine. Tried disconnecting the cable and manually shifting it and it won't go. With a lot of pressure I can get it to start clunking but won't lock in. Now I'm scrambling to get this fixed before the holiday weekend.
I pulled the lower unit thinking the forward gear was toast. Pulled the prop shaft and the gears look ok. Have some wear but don't look too bad. Here's where my questions come in.
I can't get the driveshaft out to fully inspect the forward gear. I pulled the nut off the pinion along with the water pump housing and top plate but can't get it to come out. Is there something I'm missing or is the pinion just really stuck on the shaft?
Also how much end play should the driveshaft and prop shaft have? I know the prop shaft moved in and out a little. Not sure if it's really excessive or not. The drives shaft will move a lot though. Like 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch. Is that normal?
I'm thinking my problem is that the gears all pushing away from each other causing it not to lock into gear.
Reverse has always worked fine but I did notice since I out the motor on it would stick in reverse when shifted to neutral. I always had to go just past neutral into forward to get it to actually go into neutral. Then I could put the shifter back to neutral and be fine. I assumed it was an adjustment issue no wondering if it has to do with endplay in the prop/drive shaft.
Back to the driveshaft I noticed looking at a parts diagram there is supposed to be a crush sleeve on top of the upper bearing. Mine doesn't have that...... Which I'm guessing would take care of my endplay issue. I plan on picking on up tomorrow for it.
So with all that said could the missing crush sleeve be causing it not to go into gear??
Sorry for the long post. Just trying to give as much info as I can to save time and hopefully get some good ideas on a fast repair.

After looking at it some more it doesn't look like the missing crush ring on the driveshaft could cause it not to go into forward. The pinon is still making contact with the forward gear. Also putting the top cover back on it has less endplay. Obviously I'll still get a crush ring for it but I don't think that is my problem. Still can't get the driveshaft out to further inspect the forward gear.

You'll need the factory manual & specialty tools to do the task.
I saw a used one on FB for $300 CAD a swap might be cheaper & faster to go boating

 

[las]

It sounds like your clutch dog and forward gear are worn badly and that the shift linkage was adjusted wrong. If anything you would (should) adjust it to a forward bias, meaning you would have to go past neutral into reverse before you find neutral.
I'm doing the same job at the moment and my pinion gear was REALLY stuck on the drive shaft and I had to hammer it off. Lock my post up to see what my gearcase looks like and maybe post some of your own!
The crush ring was no effect on the ability to go into gear, it's a rather crude way of eliminating the endplay in the drive shaft in my opinion.
It's not an easy or cheap fix unless you can dremel the gear and dog yourself and are able to get the forward gear out and assemble the whole thing again to a working order.

 

[nvanzee]

Looked at your pics and mine isn't that bad. The corners or rounded just a little but overall they still all look pretty square. Still can't get the driveshaft out. Had it in a vice hitting on a 2x4 on the housing with a good size hammer and nothing. Im going to reassemble and adjust the shift rod properly and see what it does.

I bought this motor used in unknown condition. Someone had been into the upper part of the lower unit before and I think they turned the shift shaft.

I tried adjusting it when the boat was in the water trying to figure out the issue. At the time for whatever reason I was thinking it had to screw farther in. Tried that and only got a half turn out of it. Which it sounds like it should be 2.5 turns out from what I read. Which looking at the linkage seems like those couple turns would make a big difference.
I'll post my findings once I get it back together

 

[nvanzee]

Got the lower unit put back together. Seems to shift fine manually.
I measured the end play in the prop shaft and it's about 3/32in. Seems like a lot but I can't seem to find a spec on that.
Planning on heading up to the boat tomorrow night to put the lower unit back on and see what it does.

 

[Nordin]

From my experience the clutch dogs and gears are sensitive to the adjustment and the edges can look pretty good with a small rounding BUT they do fail under load.
I have answer to las thread about his issue and I have made the same journey as him with the LU of my 1977 65Hp Chrysler.
Your 125Hp Force LU is similar to the 65Hp Chrysler but lager case, gears, clutch dog etc, but the construction is the same.
I ended up with change the forward gear and flipped the clutch dog 180 dgr, now it is working.
You have to be careful when adjusting the shift rod, it is really sensitive.
Just a half turn will give big effects.
Your prop shaft end play 3/32 is right. The factory call for 0,01 in plus/minus 0,001 in.
BTW I am trying to resurface my bad forward gear edges by mill just small amount to get it perpendicular. Want a spare gear on the shelf.

 

[las]

You seem to miss the spacer/disc that go between the prop shaft and forward gear. Look at the imprint the splines have made on the gear from sitting for years I suspect! Without that spacer you will have quite some play in the system.
Besides I don't think they look that good, especially knowing now how little they have to be rounded. to not work.

 

[jerryjerry05]

From the pics: both dog and gear are ok.
Nordin mention the shift rod, not sure of the turns needed in or out for the right setting.
Under the bottom carb is the top of the upper shift shaft, you might have to adjust it there?? Once in a while I've ran across the shaft needed adjusting.
Just in front of the shaft is a plenum/air inlet, it's held in with 4 tiny screws, removal makes it easier to adjust the shaft.
The lower shift shaft, the seal on the shaft can get corrosion built up and it squeezes the shaft and stops the rod and shifting isn't right.
The pinion gear is stuck, BIG pry bar and a hammer will help get it loose.
Turn the nut out a couple turns, insert the prybar and hit the prop shaft up and it can break the pinion nut loose??

 

[nvanzee]

You seem to miss the spacer/disc that go between the prop shaft and forward gear. Look at the imprint the splines have made on the gear from sitting for years I suspect! Without that spacer you will have quite some play in the system.
Besides I don't think they look that good, especially knowing now how little they have to be rounded. to not work.

Ahh yes there is not a spacer in there.....
Would that cause an issue with going into gear? Seems like that would just allow the dog to go farther into the forward gear?
I'm hoping with the shift rod adjusted properly it will at least be able to get me on the water this weekend. Then this fall I can tear it back down and get the gears and dog machined.

 

[las]

It would not cause an issue going into gear. It might actually give you some more forward throw and your prop will push the shaft further back in the housing. But that's not a good thing or something that will help I think.
I just tested how strong the hold of the dog was against my reverse gear, teeth are fine and not rounded on dog and reverse. There was literally no holding power! So I do believe that the amount of dog/gear rounding you have, it will skip gears.... If you decide to go boating with it, take it VEEEERY slow