88 Johnson 20hp - I'm about to give up.....

gnarbrah

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
140
Hi all - If you go back and search my posts you'll see I've been fighting with this motor for quite a while. A quick status as of now - I bit the bullet and took it to a mechanic. $300 later I had the carb redone, new impeller, new fuel lines, plugs, etc. A general tune up. Motor starts right up and idles fine and while on the ear muffs (or in the water) you can "goose" the throttle in neautral and it revs up perfectly. Once in gear it will begin to throttle up but as soon as I really hit the throttle to try and plane out the J12 Carolina Skiff it dies out. If I throttle back quickly enough it will keep running and just purr along in idle or slightly above all day long. Compression is right at 130 psi on both cylinders, spark is good and it has a brand new fuel pump. I've pulled the carb no less than 4 times since the trip to the mechanic and made sure the high speed nozzle is clear (unscrewed it, carb cleaner through it, wire through it, followed by compressed air so it's spotless). The float is also perfectly level and installed correctly. I've read here on iBoats that the nozzle gasket (I believe that's what it's called) that seals the bowl to the carb coud be an issue but it is there and appears to be in good shape. I assume it was replaced when I had the carb professionally re-done. I called the mechanic back and explained this to him and he muttered "sounds like the timing isn't advancing right". He was supposed to call me back 2 weeks ago to schedule a time to bring it in but I haven't heard from him. I assume he doesn't really want to deal with it. Be that as it may I'm hoping someone here will have an idea to try so I can have a little hope. My ideas are maybe there's a bad gasket (either the nozzle gasket or the main gasket between carb and motot)?? If it is a timing issue what would I even begin to check? I have the factory manual but that really hasn't given me a great place to start.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!! It's hot and I'm dying to get back on the water!!!!
 

AlTn

Commander
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
2,813
Re: 88 Johnson 20hp - I'm about to give up.....

follow the link and sync procedure in your oem manual and that should answer your carb and ignition timing issues...if these are indeed the cause of the symptoms...it won't be difficult to do...just specific steps
 

gnarbrah

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
140
Re: 88 Johnson 20hp - I'm about to give up.....

I just got done reading the linc and sync chapter again. Problem is with the step talking about running the motor "with the appropriate test wheel with no prop at WOT" I have no idea what that is or how I would begin going about that?
 

234rick

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
75
Re: 88 Johnson 20hp - I'm about to give up.....

Link & sync doesn't have anyting to do with WOT you do it with the motor not running. You must be talking about setting the timing.



When you check the spark are you using a spark tester ? You need a spark tester to test the spark at cranking speed & at WOT. If this is a pull start tiller motor I'm not sure how you test it. With two people at least. Or while its running with a timing light. I suspect you have a separated wire or wires where it goes into the timing plate. It makes contact when at idle or lower rpms but it pulls apart when opened up.
 

boobie

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
20,826
Re: 88 Johnson 20hp - I'm about to give up.....

Is the timing plate advancing under the flywheel when you hit the throttle to it's full advance position ? You can check this very simply by having the mtr shut off , putting it in forward gear and moving your throttle to WOT and watch the mag plate. It should go to it's max stop position.
 

Cofe

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
1,883
Re: 88 Johnson 20hp - I'm about to give up.....

I have had trouble rebuilding carbs with the Sierra kits. The washer under the float needle seat, is too thick. If the float isn't adjusted accordingly, the bowl would not hold enough fuel to keep motor running when opening up the throttle. I do not know if this is your motor's problem.

Here is a linc/sync that works with your motor.

With motor off.
Throttle all the way down. The roller above the carb needs to line up with the mark on the spark advance cam. Carb butterfly all the way closed.

With motor off.
Shift into forward, throttle at WOT. The roller has picked up off the spark advance cam. Carb butterfly horizontal.

Adjust linkages to achieve these results...... Hope this helps out.
 

gnarbrah

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
140
Re: 88 Johnson 20hp - I'm about to give up.....

Thanks for the input! Sounds like I was talking about timing adjustment with the whole "test wheel" thing. The Linc & Sync procedure Cofe stated is done. I've adjusted that previously and it was done again by the mechanic and it's aligned perfectly. I have checked the spark with a spark checker and it appears good. This was also done by the mechanic (I assume) because he said the spark looked good. I'll check the timing plate advancement tonight after work (per Boobie's suggestion) and get a picture posted. Any idea what the "max stop position" should be? Is it just all the way over?

Thanks again
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: 88 Johnson 20hp - I'm about to give up.....

Full spark advance timing...... Even is adjusted incorrectly, that would not cause the dying out problem that you have BUT it would result in internal damage (preignition, etc). The full spark advance stop is the rubber bumper on the long screw that has a lock nut that prevents it from turning..... the timer base under the flywheel would be right up against it when at the full throttle/full spark setting. It can be checked/adjusted as follows.

(Timing At Cranking Speed 4?)
(J. Reeves)

NOTE: If your engine has the "Fast Start" feature", you must disconnect/eliminate that feature in order to use the following method. The "Fast Start" automatically advances the spark electronically when the engine first starts, dropping it to normal when the engine reaches a certain temperture.

The full spark advance can be adjusted without have the engine running at near full throttle as follows.

To set the timing on that engine, have the s/plugs out, and have the throttle at full, set that timer base under the flywheel tight against the rubber stop on the end of the full spark timer advance stop screw (wire it against that stop if necessary).

Rig a spark tester and have the gap set to 7/16". Hook up the timing light to the #1 plug wire. Crank the engine over and set the spark advance to 4? less than what the engine calls for.

I don't know the full spark advance setting your engine calls for, but to pick a figure, say your engine calls for 28?, set the timing at 24?. The reasoning for the 4? difference is that when the engine is actually running, due to the nature of the solid state ignition componets, the engine gains the extra 4?.

If you set the engine to its true setting at cranking speed, when running it will advance beyond its limit by 4? which will set up pre-ignition causing guaranteed piston damage! You don't want that to take place.

No need to be concerned about the idle timing as that will take care of itself. The main concern is the full advance setting.

Be sure to use your own engines spark advance settings, not the one I picked out of the air here in my notes.

Throttle butterfly engagement...... Look closely at the cam on the timer base, the casting that rubs against the throttle roller. You'll see two marks on it. The throttle butterfly should just start to open when those two marks are dead center with the throttle roller..... not before or after. If the butterfly opens too soon in relation to the timing (those two marks), the engine will surely bog down. Also double check to make sure that the throttle butterfly does not pass the full throttle horizontal position when at the full throttle setting.

Carburetor kit..... The small circular nozzle gasket on that 1988 20hp model should be the same thickness as the float chamber to upper body gasket, NOT a thick cork gasket. If you have the thick cork gasket, you have the wrong kit.

(Carburetor Float Setting)
(J. Reeves)

With the carburetor body held upside down, the float being viewed from the side, adjust the float so that the free end of the float (the end opposite the hinge pin) is ever so slightly higher (just ever so slightly off level) than the other end. And when viewed from the end, make sure it is not cocked.

(Carburetor Adjustment - Single S/S Adjustable Needle Valve)
(J. Reeves)

Initial setting is: Slow speed = seat gently, then open 1-1/2 turns.

Start engine and set the rpms to where it just stays running. In segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the S/S needle valve in. Wait a few seconds for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in, the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again to where the engine will just stay running.

Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting.

Note 1: As a final double check setting of the slow speed valve(s), if the engine has more than one carburetor, do not attempt to gradually adjust all of the valves/carburetors at the same time. Do one at a time until you hit the above response (die out or spit back), then go on to the next valve/carburetor. It may be necessary to back out "all" of the slow speed adjustable needle valves 1/8 turn before doing this final adjustment due to the fact that one of the valves might be initially set ever so slightly lean.

Note 2: If the engine should be a three (3) cylinder engine with three (3) carburetors, start the adjustment sequence with the center carburetor.

When you have finished the above adjustment, you will have no reason to move them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.

Thousands of parts in my remaining stock. Not able to list them all. Let me know what you need and I'll look it up for you. Visit my eBay auction at:

http://shop.ebay.com/Joe_OMC32/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
 
Top