85hp Force Under powered

[adamkat22]

Hey all. I just got a mid 80s Force 85hp outboard. It seems extremely underpowered. Have pulled all the carbs and cleaned them. Compression test checked out. Spark plugs are new and have spark. When I pull the spark plug wire on the middle carb it won’t start at all, but with both the upper and the lower spark plug wires pulled (individually or even at the same time) it seems to operate about the same (maybe slightly rougher?). A few times I loosened the bowl on the middle carb and it was pretty full of gas. Seems to backfire and still have hard starts initially (not sure if that’s related). Anyone have thoughts on what I should try next? Thanks

 

[jerryjerry05]

What's the compression readings?
When you cleaned the carbs, did you make sure the jets were clear and no build up in them?
Where are the air/fuel needles set? should be at 1 turn out, maybe 1 1/8?
If they don't make any difference then the port cover gaskets might be sucking air? Do the starting fluid test I explained in the last post?

 

[adamkat22]

Ok I have an update and an edit to my problem. Ends up we didn’t have spark on the bottom plug (miscommunication with the buddy I was testing with). By swapping leads on coils and power packs I’ve now traced the problem back to some wires feeding the power packs. There are two quick connect harnesses feeding each power pack. One harness has quite a few wires (orange, red, etc) and the other just has blue and yellow. I’ve narrowed it down to one of the blue/yellow sets.

coming from the stator there are (2) yellows and (2) blues. For some reason the blues are then spliced together and continue on to only one of the harnesses. So one harness has the blue/yellow coming in and the other one has just a yellow (see pic below). For what it’s worth, the one that has just the single yellow was powering the pack that fed just one coil. The one that has both blues from the stator and the yellow powered two coils.

When I plug the blue/yellow set to either power pack I get spark. But when I use the set that is just the yellow on either power pack I don’t have spark.

any thoughts? Did I make that too confusing?

 

[adamkat22]

I’m reading elsewhere that the wiring configuration that I described seems normal, and that maybe it’s worth disconnecting the rectifier and seeing if that gets all three cylinders to get spark. I think the rectifier is what I’ve added a picture of? Do I just pull the black/ground? Sound familiar to anyone? Thanks!

 

[jerryjerry05]

The reason there's 2 in one and 1 in the other is the motors a 3 cyl.
If it was a 4cyl. both would have 2 wires in each connector.
The "plug and play" connectors(made before 1987, used on the power pack) are famous for failing.
Each coil has plug and play connectors but don't seem to be a problem.
Now if you have spark on #1 and #2 but not on #3 The stator or the pack is
usually the problem. outboardignitindotcom has test procedures for your motor. You can do the basic tests but the more advanced will require a special DVA or Peak Reading Volt Meter.
You can swap the packs or coils around and see if the no spark follows the move?
What's the compression readings?

 

[adamkat22]

Yeah I looked briefly at ourboardignitions but some of the language in the diagnostic steps seemed over my head. I don’t have a DVA meter. I did what you mentioned though (swapped packs) and the spark follows the swap, so I think I have traced it as far as the plug and play connector that has just the one wire. I don’t know how to trace it any farther with the skills/tools I have available. To test stator I need to pull the flywheel I assume? And then will need a DVA meter? Another post mentioned disconnecting the rectifier and see if that gives me spark back. I assume that means just taking the black lead off of it? Other posts mention testing the trigger...but I don’t know where that is or how to test it. Seems like those are possibly two easier tests I could do quick? Or get the tools to pull the flywheel and test the stator ..

compression was done a while ago when we first bought the boat. Then it sat for a few months before we discovered this problem. I remember it was within range of what forums like this one were saying I should have. I can test it again if that is useful

 

[adamkat22]

Sorry for so many updates. Traced everything back and gave a little tug on the white wire coming from the stator (the one that ultimately feeds the coil that isn’t firing) and it slid right out. Hoping there is a way to just get it back into the stator with some epoxy or something...

 

[Redbarron%%]

If you can get to a part of the wire in the stator and solder it back in it will work. The part you are talking about is the trigger coil and not the stator (I believe).
The wires go to coils that are potted inside the plastic ring with the arm that goes to the timing lever.
The trigger coils are spaced around the ring to give the 120* difference in the firing of the cylinders. It is probably possible to dig the wire out and resolder it, but it will be a delicate job and you might break another wire, but you would be no worse off than you are now.
You can measure the resistance of the early engines from each of the trigger wires to the black/white common wire.
If you have a late model CDM with the same color trigger wires and a black wire with a ring terminal for ground you can't easily read the resistance as the bias circuit is built in the trigger assembly.

 

[adamkat22]

Hm. I guess I don’t know the difference between the trigger coil and the stator. I don’t have a puller so I haven’t gotten the flywheel off yet, but here is a pic from what I can see. The circled area is where the yellow wire came from. Looks a little crispy maybe? If it was salvageable that would be great. Had just been pricing out a new stator...

 

[Redbarron%%]

The colors I mentioned earlier are not for the older motors, but the later two models of the Force outboards. Yours is earlier than I have any experience with.