83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

[jonra]

Hello,

I recently purchased a 1984 16' Bayliner Capri with an 85 hp Force motor. This is my first boat so I'm new to all this and would like to have an experienced someone's opinion on my situation.

The engine is an 1983 856X3L 85 hp Chrysler Force. Before I bought it, the previous owner started it up in his yard on muffs and it seemed to run just fine. So I bought it and several days later decided to take it out on the lake. I put fresh fuel in the tank and put it on the lake but could only get it to run for a few moments before it would die out. After cranking it about 100 times I finally gave up and took it home.

I decided to clean the carburetors but had zero luck finding rebuild kits. The only thing I could find that matched were the bowl gaskets, so I bought those and pulled the carburetors. They had some debris in the bowls, mostly from the gaskets deteriorating. (I believe they're made of cork) Anyway, I'm trying to keep this short. Put the carbs back on, and got it to run on the muffs and idle fairly smoothly. Until it overheated. I know next to nothing about outboard motors but somehow an impeller and water pump is supposed to cool the engine. (I know, my ignorance is showing) I figured I wasn't getting enough water flow with the muffs and decided to let it cool and try the lake again. We got it to the lake and and got it running, but this time it would die as soon as it was put in gear. I had my dad with me and he adjusted the carbs to where we could get it to run in gear, but it was a DOG. Like an idiot I pointed it straight out into the lake and it got us there, and then left us there. Now the engine will not crank at all. Got pulled back to shore, took the boat home, and checked the compression using a rope. Two of the cylinders read at 100 and if I remember right it's the top cylinder that has next to no compression.

I said all that to give you what little background I have of the motor and my experience with it. I am wondering if it is worth it to rebuild the engine? I am willing to take the time and really want to learn but don't know if it's beyond hope. If anyone could help me out with this I would really appreciate it!!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

Sounds like you need to buy a manual FIRST.Then go through the steps to diagnose your problems.
Compression/spark/fuel.
If it got hot you could have blown the head gasket at the top cylinder.
Remove the plugs and do a comp test using the starter.Pulling the rope won't do it.After the test and comp is still bad remove the head and check the gasket.That the problem,then.Replace it and then the impeller and then the fuel pump diaphram.
Running it on a hose will not always put enough water to the motor.
Tape the muffs in place or get a big bucket.

 

[jonra]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

Hunting down a manual now. Thanks for the advice.

 

[SweeperForce]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

May I suggest getting a Clymer manual. I have both Soloc and Clymer. Don't waste your money on a Soloc.

Tom

 

[jonra]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

May I suggest getting a Clymer manual. I have both Soloc and Clymer. Don't waste your money on a Soloc.

Tom

Unfortunately I went ahead and bought a Seloc manual before I saw your post. I am going to try and make do with it. Out of curiosity, why don't you recommend the Seloc?

I've also had another problem arise since my last post. After bringing it home from the lake, when I put the key in the ignition and turn it nothing happens. The choke still operates when I push the key in, but whenever I turn the key absolutely nothing happens. Any ideas as to what may be causing this?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

Tom, I hate to be the harbinger of doom and gloom here. If the top cylinder has no or extremely low compression, and if your father played with the carbs without knowing what he was doing, and if the head gasket is not damaged, then most likely you have damaged the piston and cylinder. Search for threads on carb adjustment to see why. I posted one a while ago on synchronizing carbs and timing.

Hopefully, you only have a damaged head gasket. BUT:

Here is a CLASSIC case of not buying the repair manual FIRST and spending more money than necessary.

While the Clymers manual is nowhere as good as a factory manual, (it tells you what to do but not why) it is far superior to the Seloc. Many people have trouble with the instructions in the Seloc. They are in some cases either incomplete, incorrect, or just plain confusing. That is why most people who have used both will recommend the Clymers over it.

Since you have already done a compression test and it showed problems, now is the time to pull the head and check the condition of all three cylinder bores.

As far as nothing happening with the key: These engines have a neutral interlock switch--a brown switch on the side of the lower carb. If the engine is not in neutral, it will not crank. Sometimes the "slop" in the control cables will position the neutral interlock cam incorrectly and the button on the switch will not be depressed. Simply move the control handle from forward to reverse and back to neutral. That should reposition it correctly and the engine should now crank.

 

[jonra]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

Tom, I hate to be the harbinger of doom and gloom here. If the top cylinder has no or extremely low compression, and if your father played with the carbs without knowing what he was doing, and if the head gasket is not damaged, then most likely you have damaged the piston and cylinder. Search for threads on carb adjustment to see why. I posted one a while ago on synchronizing carbs and timing.

Hopefully, you only have a damaged head gasket. BUT:

Here is a CLASSIC case of not buying the repair manual FIRST and spending more money than necessary.

While the Clymers manual is nowhere as good as a factory manual, (it tells you what to do but not why) it is far superior to the Seloc. Many people have trouble with the instructions in the Seloc. They are in some cases either incomplete, incorrect, or just plain confusing. That is why most people who have used both will recommend the Clymers over it.

Since you have already done a compression test and it showed problems, now is the time to pull the head and check the condition of all three cylinder bores.

As far as nothing happening with the key: These engines have a neutral interlock switch--a brown switch on the side of the lower carb. If the engine is not in neutral, it will not crank. Sometimes the "slop" in the control cables will position the neutral interlock cam incorrectly and the button on the switch will not be depressed. Simply move the control handle from forward to reverse and back to neutral. That should reposition it correctly and the engine should now crank.

Thanks alot for the response! Hopefully I will have the chance to pull the head this Friday. And that is bad news about the manual but I am going to try and make do with what I have.

Also concerning the ignition problem, Frank, I did what you said and it worked except now I have starter problems. The starter spins but the pinion gear does not move up to engage the flywheel. According to my manual I have a corroded or gummed up Bendix drive. Does that sound accurate?

To everyone that has taken the time to reply I really appreciate it. I've got alot to learn!

 

[foodfisher]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

Yes you do. WD40 on the bendix.

 

[jonra]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

Ok, here's a quick update:

I took the starter off the engine, removed and cleaned the pinion drive, then put it all back together and reattached it to the engine. I checked the ground, solenoid, and battery connections and cleaned them until they were shiny. I think that is what made the biggest difference, because the starter seemed stronger after I hooked it all back up and tested it. So the starter issue is resolved.

I was told to recheck the compression with the starter because using a rope wouldn't give accurate readings. So I checked again and this is what I got:

Top cylinder: 0 psi
Middle: 90 psi
Bottom: 95 psi

My manual says the compression should be at 150, and a guy at a marine shop told me if it wasn't at least at 120 on all three it wasn't worth fixing.

Any thoughts?

Jon

 

[foodfisher]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

Not good. You're going to have to at least pull the head off and have a look. Good luck

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

Once you pull the head, drive the boat to a machine shop and let them "mike" the cylinders. These engines can be bored out up to .030 over. Your stock bore should be 3.3125 so you can go to 3.3425. If the cylinders are damaged more than that, then a used block must be bought. However, if the top cylinder is not damaged too badly, then a rebuild, if you do the work yourself, should only cost around 500-700 bucks.

In rereading your post, It is possible that the previous owner sold you a damaged engine either unknowingly or with his knowledge. These engines will start and run in the driveway(but not well on the water) on two cylinders. If you had trouble starting and running the engine right from the beginning, it is possible that the damage was already there.

 

[jonra]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

Ok, another quick update! I finally got a minute to pull the head, and discovered that the head gasket was blown at the top cylinder! Encouraging news...

To my unexperienced eye, the cylinders and pistons look good. There are no visible scratches or pits.

So here is my tentative plan of action:

1) Purchase a new head gasket, thermostat, and thermoswitch (the insulator cracked) and thoroughly clean and reinstall the head.

2) Buy a new impeller and install.

3) Synchronize the carbs and timing as per Frank's post.

4) Test the motor.

How does it sound? Have I left anything major out or do I need to add anything? I appreciate everyone's replies and advice so far, it's been a big help!

 

[jonra]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

Ok, tonight I removed the lower unit in order to inspect the impeller and found that it was totally destroyed. I also finally realized that this is not the original lower unit. I should have known seeing as it's a different color from the rest of the outboard I suppose. Anyway, there are no markings on the lower unit that I can see and I need to identify it so I can order the right parts. Can somebody please tell me where to look for a model name or number?

The only way I can really describe it is that the water pump housing is secured to the lower unit by four bolts that stick up off the unit and enter through the bottom of the housing and a smaller bolt that secures the housing from the top.

There is a number off the pump plate: 150/SD

Any direction would be greatly appreciated!

Jon

 

[buckwheat34]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

For part sources you can check out my post = "1988 Force 50hp Rebuild Powerhead??". Listed there you can find some of the places I have found with the best pricing for hard to find parts. I sent a e-mail to Franz at Franzmarine@AOL.com and he has many OEM parts at reasonable prices. He's out of town this week, but he'll be back in next week. I'm ordering parts there and from the other sources listed to do a complete rebuild of a 1988 Force 50HP. Cost as described in the post is about $550 in parts (2cylinders) and my time to do it.
Good luck, buckwheat34

 

[jonra]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

Buckwheat34:

Thanks alot for the sources and info! I've already emailed Franz, hopefully he can point me in the right direction. Good luck with your rebuild!

Jon

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

Most Chrysler/Force use the same impeller.If it's the 6 blade F523065-1 is the part # You can get it on this site or boats.net
Mercury dealers can get the part.Take the old one with you.
Most places try to sell you the one for a Mercury 47-8998-1 It's too big. The housing is made of some kind of pot metal.Looks like crap.If it's smooth and no pitting it can be used again.The wear plate is stainless.Watch out for deep grooves in the plate.J

 

[jasonbailey]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

I went through overheat/head gasket problems with my Chrysler 75HP. After a new headgasket, water pump and thermostat I still got overheat problems above 4000RPM's. Removed head again, took it to a machine shop and had it planed. I also took the outer cover off of the head and replaced all of the seal material inside the cover. Put back together, no more overheat problems.

 

[jonra]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

OK guys, if you all could help me out with this it would be much appreciated. I took several pictures of the lower unit and the water pump housing and posted them. I'm trying to identify where this unit came for, if not the exact year and model I'd like to at least be close enough so I know what parts will work on it. Maybe the pics won't be enough to identify it, but I figured it's worth a shot!

Jon

 

[mrdibs1]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

My that looks familiar. You sure that's not off an L-Drive? Here's your part #'s if it is. Looks exact. http://www.maxrules.com/fixforcecool.html#FK1202

 

[USMCMatt]

Re: 83 Chrysler Force 85hp worth it??

Sounds like my suitation. I have a 84 Force 85hp with a 89 L drive lower unit.